Tasting Notes

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Derek T.
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Tasting Notes

Post by Derek T. »

I have posted a similar questionto this on the Website Suggestions area with no real response so thought it might do better with more visibility here.

FTLOP generates a great number of Tasting Notes from members on a wide variety of Ports, Dry Reds, Madiera and occasional imposters. Roy also maintains his own TN database which is available to PP members and soon to be available to users of Cellar Tracker.

It is not uncommon for people here to state that they are as interested in what normal people have to say about wines as they are the experts. For that reason, I would like to see a searchable and structured Forumites TN Database available to all.

Whilst we are not all Bob Parker, I think there would be many people out there who would be interested to read our impressions of wines they may intend buying. I for one would be happy for Roy and Eric Levine (Cellar Tracker) to arrange for Forumite TN's to be made available to CT users, although I would not want this restricted to only CT members who are also FTLOP PP members.

The suggestion I put forward previously was that if Roy and Stewart can give us a place to put them I would be willing to put in a few hours re-formating as many as I could find in the forum threads as a starting point for the FTLOP Forumite TN Database. The offer still stands but I would be interested to know if others would be willing to share the pain to make this happen.

Derek
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Tom Archer
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Post by Tom Archer »

Compiling everyone's tasting notes in an orderly and searchable manner makes excellent sense. You can get a much better take on a wine by reading the experiances of several different people.

Tom
Adam F
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Post by Adam F »

I agree, I prefer to get several views on a wine I am thinking of buying since normmaly I assume the 12 pack will be shared with family or friends so having something that has general appeal makes sense.
Scott Anaya
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Post by Scott Anaya »

Derek,

This is a great suggestion. I had the same thought for this type of function as I began to see repeated questions asking for Port suggestions by folks who continually join the site.

Thankfully, you, Roy, Tom, and the gang have been all too willing to keep offering advice and recommendations to everyone who asks.

It might be great to have any posts that are tasting notes, be able to be punched into a preset pull down menu of options: VP, Ruby, Tawny, Colheita, Madeira, etc, vintage, price, score, notes, recommended decanting time, etc. And have those automatically dumped into a database arranged much like Roy's. That way they would still be viewable in the appropriate forumn discussion and discussed there (important), but also catalogued in the database for viewing and arranged by type, vintage, score, price, etc as Roy's is.

You could maybe even have the score "averaged" if there are multiple posts on the same wine so as to have the "groups" take on a wine. Maybe the database could also be arranged and searched by the "Taster" so that people can follow the recommendations of someone whos tastes matches theirs?

And maybe you could consider forgoing the pain and just make this databse one that grows from here on out instead of painfully researching all the old TN's which may have only partial info on any one Port? And ask that people back fill with their own old TN's as a contribution?

Just my :twocents:
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

Great feedback - thanks 8)

It is especially pleasing that some newer members and infrequent posters like this idea - no offense intended, Tom :wink:

Whether this was a new "start from scratch" database or one where some of us could combine forces to provide a starting point I would love to see it happen.

Maybe one day the FTLOP Forumite Database could become the common man's port Bible 8)

Keep it coming folks, all views welcome :D

Derek
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

I have just thought of an idea that could make this TN database unique.

We could adopt Tom's scoring system as the measure of choice, thus setting ourselves apart from those who follow the more traditional 100 point, 20 point or 5 star scales which are commonly used by the great and the good.

This would obviously be subject to Tom agreeing that we can exploit his intellectual property.

Who knows, maybe we could end up with Bob Parker or Mark Suires scoring ports as 93 points (or 8-7 on the Uncle Tom scale) 8)

Derek
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Tom Archer
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Post by Tom Archer »

Scott,

You are right on track here - but maybe three stops ahead..!

..I'm wondering why Roy didn't launch this on day one!!

Derek,

You know the value of my intellectual property - it's FREE

('cos no-one would ever pay... :D )

Tom
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

uncle tom wrote: Derek,

You know the value of my intellectual property - it's FREE

('cos no-one would ever pay... :D )

Tom
As I thought, Tom, but I thought it polite to ask :wink:

Derek
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Alan C.
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Post by Alan C. »

I can feel some controversy coming on here,
I think its a good idea as well. But I'm not a huge fan of individual Tasting Notes, as I can find them over elaborate (Sorry guys, just a personal opinion)
But I do love the thought of having an index where you can look at average scores, to assist in future purchases.
I think the controversy will arrive in the form of Roy. I may do him a great dis-service, but aren't his Tasting Notes part of the appeal of the PP?

I'll be interested to see Roy's reaction. But it gets my vote.

Alan
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

Alan,

Thanks for the honest view.

I think the limitations of a structured database * would help remove the element that frustrates you in the freeform equivalent.

At the moment Forumites can post TN's that run to many pages of information and blurb. These are fine for discussion threads but tiresome when you just want to know - was it good or bad? is it ready for drinking? or should I buy some?

A structured database would limit the number of words that could be used therefore causing the taster to only refer to the salient points rather than rambling on about deep fried coal dust and over ripe insecticide :lol:

I take your point that the score may be the most interesting aspect for many people if the purpose is reaching a decision to buy. However, I think it is useful to know on what basis the score is arrived at to understand whether or not the taster has a similar palate to yourself. An example that may ring bells with you being "Qunita do Anything 1996 - tastes exactly like Fonseca 2000 - 99 points" :? - would you just want to see "Qunita do Anything 1996 - 99 Points" or something that would give you a clue as to why the points were awarded?

Derek

* Happy to explain the term structured database in another thread
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Andy Velebil
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Post by Andy Velebil »

I do like the concept.

But before I give a final opinion I would like to think a bit more about it, and how it would work. However, I think there would be some major logistical issues to iron out first.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Alan C.
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Post by Alan C. »

I agree with all of your last Post. Oh my God, I'm doing an Andy to Roy thing!!! :D
I dont mind Tasting Notes, its just that I do want to get to the result and recommendation. If it includes a summarised decription all the better for me, but the majority may want the fuller versions. Either way, if it includes an average of peoples scores, I think its well worth a punt, and good luck.

Alan
Scott Anaya
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Post by Scott Anaya »

If I'm remembering Roy's TN database on this site (it is down and being updated at the moment) it is arranged in neat little columns of the main summary points; wine, vintage, type, score with one having to click on the wine to get any flowery pros and notes on the wine.

In that format you'd be free to never read a word!

I might put in a plug for some ability to describe a wine though, not for myself, but for all of you to describe, so that i can read and learn from them! I am basically a self taught Port Lover, having read and just basically drunk alot :D Disregarding the TN's of 'hints of Peanut Butter', I have learned alot of what I am tasting thru the various notes on this site and was able to confirm my own self taught observations of bottle stink, etc which I sensed in wines myself, but didn't know what it was until I read TN's on this site.
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

Andy V. wrote:I do like the concept.

But before I give a final opinion I would like to think a bit more about it, and how it would work. However, I think there would be some major logistical issues to iron out first.
Andy and I have exchanged comments on this offline and (forgive me if I'm jumping the gun Andy) just to clarify - I am not suggesting that we create something here that causes materialy more work for Stewart or Roy on an ongoing basis. What I envisage is a fnction where members can submit TN's to a central database in a structured and pre-defined format. Unstructured discussion notes can continue to be posted on the main Forum pages and it would be the tasters choice to create (and maintain) a structured note.

Roy and Stewart's input should be limited to setting up the functionality and then become a Moderation role as with all other areas of the site.

Derek
Luc Gauthier
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Post by Luc Gauthier »

My talents lay elsewere ( where ? )
I subscribe to the Homer Simpson school of TN's : Doe !! Port . . . mmmmmmmmm :yumyum:
Vintage avant jeunesse/or the other way around . . .
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Al B.
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Post by Al B. »

I need to take a look at Cellar Tracker again. To date, I have not yet given it enough time to do it justice.

But if I take a look at it and find that the tasting note database seems to work and be effective, would we be able to create some form of link to the cellar tracker TN database from the home page of the forum?

I keep a record of all my tasting notes on an excel spreadsheet. I keep the blurb separate from the scores (and used to really only refer to the scores but now I am much more interested in the comments than in the points), date and decanting time. I would be more than happy to contribute my tasting notes to a communal area, whether that area was built up using Cellar Tracker technology or using FTLOP technology or using DT technology.

And - for the record - I would really, really like to see some form of database that captures eveyone's tasting notes even if it is as unsophisticated as a separate forum with a new thread for each wine.

Alex
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Tom Archer
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Post by Tom Archer »

There does not seem to be any major hurdle here, provided Admin can generate a new section comprising a TN directory with sub directories, with the ability to sort entries numerically and alphabetically.

In the first directory, the user selects or adds a year, and in the second selects or adds a wine for that year.

The resulting wine can then be browsed or a new TN added.

The section could launch with Roy's notes, and others could then add to them.

Off-topic comment should be strictly verboten, and it might be prudent to restrict the ability to add to the database to those who have subscribed.

Tom
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Alan C.
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Post by Alan C. »

Tom,

Am I reading that right. Do you only want the New Data Base to be open to PP members?
If thats the case it, it doesn't really concern the rest of us, so it might be an idea to take this whole thread to the PP Forum and sort it ourt amongst yourselves.

Alan
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Tom Archer
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Post by Tom Archer »

Alan,

Roy's existing notes are on the restricted bit, but I'm really not bothered.

Many forums limit access or contribution to certain parts to those who have reached a certain number of posts - which is another option.

I really can't see the point of the PP forum..

Tom
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Alan C.
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Post by Alan C. »

Tom,

Dereks idea appealed to me because of its openess and ability to be contributed to, and used by, all registered members of the Forum.
I know Roy has all his Tasting Notes available only to PP Members. He is a Journalist/Tour Operator, and if he chooses to attempt to induce payments for his work, good luck to him, but its not a road I choose to go down at this time.
I enjoy this Forum, and on a Non-Business/vested interest basis would contribute towards its upkeep for the fun and knowledge I get out of it. Whilst it is controlled by Roy and his advisory panel, and he has his notes and private Forums, plus the commercial enhancement of his Tours, etc, I again wish him nothing but successl, but choose not to contribute.
I do continue to be drawn to ideas like Dereks, which seem a lot more 'By the people, for the people'. Thats why I was surprised at the direction you suggested.
Its alot of work for the instigator, and therefore they should have more than their fair share of opinion over such matters, like Roy with his/our Forum, but the final decisions, of such a Tasting Notes Directory, should be democratic and open to all.

Alan
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