Website Updates

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Roy Hersh
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Post by Roy Hersh »

Thanks Stewart, well said.

Derek, of course I read your posting and it was a fair and reasonable request. But as Andy mentioned right below your post:

You can put your nickname in the Signature field box that appears at the bottom of every post. Mine shows my first and last name and a little quote.

So, although it might not appear with your Avatar, which is EXACTLY where I want the real names to appear, at the bottom of each posting, the signature line ... anybody is free, even today to add their user name, nickname or even their favorite saying.

Adding a user name (which is not currently available in our system as an add on) below the User Name is not offered with our software and I would prefer Stewart to spend his time focused on other development issues behind the scenes which enhance the performance and ease of use of the site. We have a list that will keep us both busy through the summer if nothing else is added at this time. Thanks for understanding.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

Roy,

I hope you can see the difference between your last post and the one that said "is any of this unclear?" - the same message, but quite a stark contrast in style.

It is obviously your call to set Stewart's priorities and we all appreciate what we have here. All I can offer in addition to the comments above is that I think my suggested solution offers users more of what they want than yours does. My opinion, your perogative to disagree.

Perhaps it would be worth exploring what is possible before dismissing it out of hand?

Derek
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Roy Hersh
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Post by Roy Hersh »

Perhaps it would be worth exploring what is possible before dismissing it out of hand?
To answer your question, I have already done so AND mentioned it in my last post as well, which I will repeat below in case you misread it. Like I had done last time (page 1, post), when mentioning "is any of this unclear" I had given a detailed explanation that was then questioned (not by you) as if I had written nothing on the topic. The same applies to your quip, directly above this paragraph.

Adding a user name (which is not currently available in our system as an add on) below the User Name is not offered with our software.

Clearly, I have looked into this ... even BEFORE your salient suggestion on the previous page. Trust me, Stewart and I really DO discuss all serious suggestions and then come to a decision. As he mentioned, not everyone is going to like 'em. There are some areas where it is easier to be flexible and then I am willing to even ask for ideas, suggestions, advice etc. But there are things like a "real names policy" ... where there will be very little flexibility and fortunately, there are only a few situations where this is the case.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

Roy Hersh wrote:
Perhaps it would be worth exploring what is possible before dismissing it out of hand?
To answer your question, I have already done so AND mentioned it in my last post as well
My remark was directed at your initial response to my suggestion, not to the subsequent attempt at reasoning.

Derek
Todd Pettinger
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Re: Someone WITHOUT their name appearing...

Post by Todd Pettinger »

admin wrote:Can someone whose name no longer appears on the left side of your forum posts please test the following for me and post your reply here (I only need ONE person to do this). You might also want to memorize these instructions, as you'll probably have to navigate away from them to perform the following steps:

Go to the FTLOP Home Page (not the forum home page)
Make sure you are logged in
Click the "User Profile" link on the left nav bar
Hover over the "Edit" button at the upper left
Select "Update Your Profile"
Go to the "Contact Info" Tab

If your First Name and Last Name are already there, please let me know.
If they aren't, please enter your REAL first and last name and save the changes.
Then, go back into the forum and see if your real name now appears by your post.

Thanks
Stewart
Hi Stewart,

I have now updated my username to be Todd Pettinger (from tpettinger). I logged out, cleared inet cache, cookies, temp inet files, etc.) Logged back in, still don't have an identity :cry: ;)

Let me know if you'd like me to try anything else from s troubleshooting perspective.

Todd
Todd Pettinger
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Post by Todd Pettinger »

Roy,

Let me start off by saying that I support the use if First names on the site. Perhaps not Last names, but first names are a good thing. I too, like to know who I am addressing.

There are a couple of things that trouble me. I know your mind is set on this, and I fully respect that. I am not trying to change your mind or convince you that there is a different way that is "better", I simply wanted to bring up a couple of points.

1. I am not sure if there is any way to verify that the name I use or the location I enter is real. I could be John Doe from Winnipeg or Sally Jane from Miami and if I put in Todd Pettinger from Edmonton, I doubt there is much way to verify that. In my case, you can google my name and come up with all kinds of hits on race results in my local area. Going back a few years, you'd find both Edmonton and Sherwood Park as my city, as I have lived in both. I leave Edmonton in my profile for this site because Edmonton is a more-identifiable city than my actual address which is in Sherwood Park. But the point of the matter is that there likely is no way to identify if I am using my correct first name, correct city, etc.

2. I know several people in my trade who are loathe to create much of an "online footprint." They actively avoid using their real name/location/email address/etc if they have to enter ANY kind of information. Several have PO Boxes, many have "dupe" email accounts that notify their main accounts when email is received, and based on some fairly easy to set-up rules, decide whether to reply. This is more of a spam-avoidance tactic than anything else, but they just don't want to be "google-able." Why, I'm noty sure, but that is the way it would be. It may encourage more registrations with false names... John Doe may become a top-ten poster on the site. Another possibility is...

3. A real-name, real-location policy on this site MAY discourage, rather than encourage membership. I know that you try to maintain the site as the friendliest, most open, non-flaming site possible. Not all newbies who discover the site will realize that right away. It may take them a long time to go through enough posts to come to that conclusion themselves. This could simply encourage a lot more lurkers for longer periods of time.

Just my thoughts. Like I said above, I am definitely NOT trying to change your mind or argue your points. Simply bringing these points up, which may be new, maybe not - you and Stewart have discussed in great detail this issue as is apparent from both your posts and Stewart's. You may have had discussions surrounding one or all of these points as well as many more I have not brought up.

Todd
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Roy Hersh
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Post by Roy Hersh »

Todd,

I appreciate you adding your suggestions here. Protection of privacy is certainly something to be considered these days. For example, we are extra careful with the newsletter mailing list for that reason.

If you look at all of the major websites that revolve around wine message boards, they require real names (first and last) as part of the registration process in order to gain access. I am sure there are examples where this does not happen, but those are the ones that over time grow less friendly. Mutual respect, the overall safety of the community and protecting one's own reputation are the reasons why real names will be a requisite, to participate on this Forum.

As Stewart and I have both said, this was part of the very original design and my greatest concern when coming up with the FTLOP Forum's concept. There is almost nothing that has been brought up in this entire thread that had not been considered long before this Forum ever went live. I've been a host of wine website chats and "the Port guy" back to 1995 and started the first wine related live chat for America Online and then was the host for Robin Garr's wine web chat for five years. So I am no stranger to the privacy issue as it relates to wine websites.

I know the positives and negatives involved in this realm and although there may always be scoundrels and cheaters who sign up (looking to cause trouble or use fake IDs or enter the "marketplace" to scam other users) but usually sooner rather than later, the user community itself, figures it out and ousts the characters.

Again, I appreciate the privacy issues that you have raised and especially how it might affect participation and new registrants in the future! Thank you for bringing this to the fore.

Roy
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Todd Pettinger
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Post by Todd Pettinger »

Good points, particularly this one:
Roy Hersh wrote:If you look at all of the major websites that revolve around wine message boards, they require real names (first and last) as part of the registration process in order to gain access. I am sure there are examples where this does not happen, but those are the ones that over time grow less friendly. Mutual respect, the overall safety of the community and protecting one's own reputation are the reasons why real names will be a requisite, to participate on this Forum.
Being that I don't hang out on other sites... I wouldn't know this. :oops: Not sure whether that means I am limiting myself, or whether it means I am smart enough to know a good thing when I see it... it just means I only hang out here.

This is probably self-preservation. After a recent... uh... "discussion" with my CFO and wife about my port-spending habits, I think it might be dangerous if I expanded my own boundaries into anything other than port. (This is why I don't yet have any TNs in the Madeira section Roy!! :D That and the fact that I can't find anything GOOD around here... just Blandy's Madeira - no designation of age, no particular varietal, just 'Blandy's Madeira.' Not sure if this is a good thing or not! :shock: )

In any case, I do appreciate the honesty and openness on this site, it was one of the reasons that I signed up after only a week or so of 'lurking', despite the fact that I believed at the time that I did not have anything interesting or appropriate to say on the forum. Maybe ask a few questions, get a few burning questions answered that couldn't be googled... etc.

Now look at me... 580+ posts in less than 3 months (I hope I'm not perceived as just being full of hot air! :?) and a regular contributor to the forum - hopefully of articles/opinions that are of value. If I could figure out something INTERESTING to write about for a guest column, I would offer to do that (I enjoy writing, much to Alan's chagrin I;m sure!!! :) ), but between you, me, and the regulars here... I got nothing THAT insightful to tell a story about - until I get on the Harvest Tour - perhaps 08 will be my year...

Again... I, and I am sure all the others who are regulars, regular lurkers, or just the occasional contributor, thank you and Stewart for your efforts and dedication. If it was not for FTLOP, I likely would have a lot more money in my bank account:!:, but a lot less of an appreciation for port. You're doing a fine job, despite the occasional hiccup. I know some may be dissuaded from becoming regulars of the site due to the policy, but hopefully they take the time to explore around and get a really good idea of the friendliness/non-snobbery here and take the plunge. They won't know what they are missing if they don't.

Todd Pettinger
(hoping to have a profile that displays my name again soon! :) )
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Alan C.
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Post by Alan C. »

Todd,

You keep going!

And yes, your full of Hot Air! Like all of us. The Dangerous ones are the ones who dont realise. :lol:

Alan
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Andy Velebil
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Post by Andy Velebil »

Alan C wrote:
And yes, your full of Hot Air! Like all of us.

Alan
Hey, I resemble that remark :lol: :lol: :lol:
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Scott Anaya
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Post by Scott Anaya »

Hey it looks like the foreign guys over the pond stole the website as it appears to be on GMT. Which one of you is the hacker :?: :D
Scott Anaya
Luc Gauthier
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Post by Luc Gauthier »

Alan C wrote:Todd,

You keep going!

And yes, your full of Hot Air! Like all of us. The Dangerous ones are the ones who dont realise. :lol:

Alan
Alan ,
I resent that statement ,
Todd is in fact full of Ambient atmosphere . . .

Luc
Vintage avant jeunesse/or the other way around . . .
Julian D. A. Wiseman
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Signatures are clutter

Post by Julian D. A. Wiseman »

The real name policy is fine by me: so long as the machine allows me to enter it, you can have it. (Even though it is broken, presumably temporarily.)

My (slight) grumble is to disagree with Roy’s encouragement of signatures. When I am reading a thread, I like to read it. Instead the profusion of signatures, telling me the same joke time and again, are a form of mini-spam: one needs to learn not to be distracted, in order to read the worthwhile bits. Of course, this website is very much Roy’s toy (doffs hat; bows low; acknowledges rank) so Roy is the boss, but this user is nonetheless expressing a firm view that signatures are clutter and shouldn’t be used.
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Alan C.
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Post by Alan C. »

I was hopingt this would resolve itself while I was away, maybe it has. But I need a Nom De Plume, or I cant play. I'm happy for any registered member to have my correct name, Email address,etc, but for personal and proffessional reasons, I'm not having my full name on the Posts, for anyone to see.
I actually used to have my correct name and I was approached by a few persons who said they had Googled my name and found it on this site. I freely talk of personal things, and stories I dont necessarily want others to associate with me.
Maybe thats a good thing, as it would restrict me from Posting, and if I did find a way to, it would only be about Port, and Port alone.
I know there are different points of view on most subjects. For example, Julian has voiced his dislike of moving Avatars and now signitures, I personally find them entertaining. I would strive to find a solution or compremise, in which we can all be happy, and all-inclusive.
I would voice the same desire over 'correct names'.

Alan
Julian D. A. Wiseman
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Clutter, and real names

Post by Julian D. A. Wiseman »

I’m not fond of the distraction of moving avatars, nor of signatures. For me, both are distracting clutter. Others like them.

Real names? Your view of “I’m hiding from stangers and from google, not from real people” is fine with me. So is Roy’s harder line. And I’m not the boss.
Luc Gauthier
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Post by Luc Gauthier »

Alan C wrote:I was hopingt this would resolve itself while I was away, maybe it has. But I need a Nom De Plume, or I cant play. I'm happy for any registered member to have my correct name, Email address,etc, but for personal and proffessional reasons, I'm not having my full name on the Posts, for anyone to see.
I actually used to have my correct name and I was approached by a few persons who said they had Googled my name and found it on this site. I freely talk of personal things, and stories I dont necessarily want others to associate with me.
Maybe thats a good thing, as it would restrict me from Posting, and if I did find a way to, it would only be about Port, and Port alone.
I know there are different points of view on most subjects. For example, Julian has voiced his dislike of moving Avatars and now signitures, I personally find them entertaining. I would strive to find a solution or compremise, in which we can all be happy, and all-inclusive.
I would voice the same desire over 'correct names'.

Alan
Alan ,
since you are requesting a nom de plume , may I suggest Winko Bogatie :roll:
Or , better yet , lets have contest . We could call It "the naming of the great nom de plume"

McCain
Vintage avant jeunesse/or the other way around . . .
Julian D. A. Wiseman
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Sober @ Starboard?

Post by Julian D. A. Wiseman »

tanker wrote:nom de plume
Sober @ Starboard?
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Alan C.
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Re: Komrad Stewart Chiming IN

Post by Alan C. »

admin wrote:Just for the record, I have to reiterate that when Roy and I started discussing this website venture over two years ago, he asked me for two things: that we require people to use their real names on the the forum, and their real location. Trust me. We talk about it every time we have a meeting. For a litany of troublesome technology issues that have prevented me from doing the former (locations are already appearing for everyone), we are just now getting ready to implement the real name policy.

So this isn't exactly a new policy per se. In fact, a real name in the profile has always been a requirement for new registrations, it just hasn't been showing up on the front with the forum posts. It's also been widely understood among all of us that a real name is required to participate in the forum If you look back through the forum, it doesn't take long for one of the regulars to ask newbies to go in and put their real name in.

Roy and I have worked hard to keep this one of the friendliest forums on the Web. We actively monitor the threads, delete inappropriate ones (which are rare, thankfully), and have a wonderful group of you, the users, who also help police the forums and let us know if something is amiss. We also spend who knows how many hours every week keeping it up and running and creating new content. Having real names and real locations is just one more way that we can ensure that it remains the open, transparent, friendly place that it has become. So I'd like to ask that you look at this not as something that is being taken away from you, but something that will further the overall mission of this site - creating a community that uses our collective wisdom to discuss and promote our passion for Port.

I love to hear feedback on the site, and you all know that we've made changes based on your feedback. Roy and I discuss just about every suggestion that comes forth on how to make this a better site. But as the admin for the site, I have to put on my bad cop hat and say in the nicest way possible that not everything that we decide to do with the site will be up for debate or discussion about re-alignment. We aim to please, but we won't always be able to please everyone, I'm afraid. We'll do our best though to continue to develop this site and make it even better for you, our users.

Ok - taking the bad cop hat off and picking up the bottle of Port...
Roy and Stewart,

Apologies for my earlier Post. I had surprisingly missed the above point which confirms your final decision.
I respect your objectives and desires, and appreciate its your site.
I wont bother to re-iterate my problems, as they are in my Post.
As your decision is final, I'll drop down to guest status. I'll still pop in and read your fascinating insights into the world of Port. I just wont be adding my tuppence worth. (I hope there wasn't a huge collective sigh of relief there! :) ).

Its been a blast Guys. All the best.

Alan.
Julian D. A. Wiseman
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Something important to say? Email it to me.

Post by Julian D. A. Wiseman »

If you have something important to say then email it to me—email address readily found on the web—and I’ll post, crediting it as being from ‘Alan C. in exile’.
Alan C wrote:appreciate its your site
Though I reserve the right to correct apostrophes.
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Roy Hersh
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Post by Roy Hersh »

I'll drop down to guest status. I'll still pop in and read your fascinating insights into the world of Port. I just wont be adding my tuppence worth. (I hope there wasn't a huge collective sigh of relief there! ).
Alan,

Is this your way of escaping without having to ever create your own TN? :lol:

I think as a legacy, you should write at least ONE, something to remember you by.

In all seriousness, it has been a great pleasure to have you here and I have always enjoyed reading your posts, even when the humour did not come across the pond as those from the UK understood it. Thank you for all of your participation this year, it is very much appreciated. :thanks: :winepour:
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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