Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

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Lindsay E.
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Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Lindsay E. »

I was turned on to the quality of Portuguese whites at a distributor tasting two years ago where Herdade do Esporao wines were being poured. The distributor was pushing the Esporao reserva branco 2011, but they also had back vintages to taste along side the 2011. I think they might have been pouring the '07 and '09 in addition to the 2011. I was tasting with Roy and when we were both tasting the '07 Roy asked me what type of wine I would guess to be in my glass if I didn't already know it was a Portuguese white. I said "white burgundy." Roy agreed and asked me what I would guess this "white burgundy" would retail at. I put the wine in the 30-40 dollar range. The 2011 that was currently being offered was nowhere near as harmonious and balanced as the 2007. In fact, the 2011 was predominantly oaky, and acidic. However, I bought 2 cases because I figured that if it got anywhere close to the 2007 with 4 years in my cellar, than I would have a killer white on my hands for less than $6.99/bottle distributor closeout price (~$9.99 retail closeout price). I have retasted the 2011 and it has continued to improve steadily with each passing year.

This year, I have tasted the 2012 vintage of Esporao reserva branco and also the 2014 Vale D. Maria three valleys white. Both wines are equally excellent and appear to offer a price conscious alternative to those seeking an alternative to entry and medium tier white burgundy. Are Portuguese whites truly a value conscious alternative to burg? Last week, I tasted 4 bottles of white burg that ranged from 2005-2008 in vintage and ranged from $17-$38 in price. I was blown away by how well these white burgundies had held up and aged, even at this lower end of the price spectrum.

This burgundy tasting got me wondering whether or not the Portuguese whites can compete with the burgundy consumer when not being offered at sale/closeout prices. I have no doubt that the 2011 Esporao reserva branco at $9 retail close out price is yards ahead of anything that I can get from burgundy at this price. But, the 2012 Esporao reserva branco currently retails on wine searcher for anywhere between $15.99 and 22.99. The 2014 Vale D. Maria 3 valleys white should retail for anywhere between $20 and $27 based on what my distributor charges. While my tasting experience has demonstrated that these wines are worth those retail prices, and still offer a reasonable value over white burg, do you guys think that the typical oenophile will be willing to pay north of $20 for a Portuguese white when they can get a well made white Burgundy for just a few dollars more?

I realize Portuguese whites are NOT white Burgundies, but I'd love to hear any comments from people who have had experience with both Portuguese and French white wines.
Moses Botbol
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Moses Botbol »

Over $20 for a Portuguese white wine is a tough sell in the volume play. 10 years ago, the same may've been true for most reds. White wine in general I think is a tougher sell in the US, as most think of Fonte or the like.

You got me thinking... I am low on white wine right now and Herdade do Esporao has big presence in my region. Supermarkets in my town even sell their olive oil; right new to the Guedes! I should be buying more Portuguese white wines and will do so now that you got that bug in my hear.

Niepoort Coche was my single favorite Portuguese dry wine for 2016 (drinking it twice).
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Lindsay E.
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Lindsay E. »

Moses,

I've been on a big white wine kick that was started last year when some people where kind enough to open mid level bordeaux blanc (Chateau Haut de Smith), nice US viognier (Reynvaan) and quality Spanish (Lopez de Heredia) in my presence. Those wines delivered a level of sheer pleasure and intellectual fascination that I seldom find in red wines under $70. I wouldn't put either Esporao or Vale D. Maria whites on the same level as those I just mentioned...but, I also wouldn't put them terribly far behind either. The two Portuguese whites have excellent mouth-feel and finish, but they also have a slightly off-putting skunky oak note on the nose that keeps them out of the same quality tier as good Haut de Smith, Heredia and Reynvaan. Then again, the Portuguese whites are 1/2 the price of Smith, 1/3 the price of Reynvaan. So Moses, I guess what I'm saying is load up on portuguese whites, but also do yourself a favor and go try that Heredia white (its called the gravonia, I believe) because it is an astounding wine and it retails for under $30
Moses Botbol
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Moses Botbol »

Lindsay E. wrote:Moses,

I've been on a big white wine kick that was started last year when some people where kind enough to open mid level bordeaux blanc (Chateau Haut de Smith), nice US viognier (Reynvaan) and quality Spanish (Lopez de Heredia) in my presence. Those wines delivered a level of sheer pleasure and intellectual fascination that I seldom find in red wines under $70. I wouldn't put either Esporao or Vale D. Maria whites on the same level as those I just mentioned...but, I also wouldn't put them terribly far behind either. The two Portuguese whites have excellent mouth-feel and finish, but they also have a slightly off-putting skunky oak note on the nose that keeps them out of the same quality tier as good Haut de Smith, Heredia and Reynvaan. Then again, the Portuguese whites are 1/2 the price of Smith, 1/3 the price of Reynvaan. So Moses, I guess what I'm saying is load up on portuguese whites, but also do yourself a favor and go try that Heredia white (its called the gravonia, I believe) because it is an astounding wine and it retails for under $30
I am quite familiar with Heredia Lopez white's and really like them! For Portugal, I dig Loureiro grape wines and wines from Bucelas region (not to mention Dao and Douro).

Have you tried Musar white wines or Vin Jaune from the Jura?
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Andy Velebil
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Andy Velebil »

IMO, Portuguese white's do have the ability to be fantastic wines. Those from the Douro are lucky in that one can have a high altitude which is very cool at night, plenty of sun during the day, and schist soil. So you end up with a very acidity and fruit driven wine with plenty of minerality. Just the combination one wants. Thankfully the use of massive amounts of new oak seem to be subsiding for whites and reds.

The downside is that while the low priced ones offer great value, and can be very good wines, the truly great whites from the Douro are not cheap. But they can easily hold their own with some top whites from other regions.

Portuguese whites also haven't seemed to be effected by premox like white burg's are. So that is a huge plus.
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Eric Ifune
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Eric Ifune »

High end Gruner Veltliner from the Wachau. The most similar to White Burgundy wine type that I've found.
Mia Wilson
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Mia Wilson »

I love Portuguese wines a lot, but since my attendance at a wine tasting event in Chateau de Pommard (https://chateaudepommard.com/), I must say that their Chardonnay blew my mind. I tried Château de Pommard Chassagne-Montrachet 2011 and Château de Pommard Bourgogne Chardonnay 2013 and could not tell which was more pleasing. The first one is a worldwide famous Chardonnay with dominant aromas, while the second has a moderate intensity of aromas and very balanced level of acidity. Since then, I try to get as much Burgundy whites as possible. Highly recommend! [notworthy.gif]
Moses Botbol
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Moses Botbol »

Interesting this thread came up again. I must say, I find Douro whites to be a better value and more exciting than the red's for every day drinkers. Not sure I would say that for all regions of Portugal, but yes for the Douro.
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Eric Menchen
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Eric Menchen »

I'm not blown away by Portuguese whites, or many white wines in general. But I've found many American Chardonnays and a good number of white Burgundies to have a buttery flavor (diacetyl as the result of a malolactic fermentation) that I find unpleasant. I don't recall ever tasting that in a Portuguese white. So I don't buy unknown Chardonnay, but I'll happily try just about any Portuguese white.
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Eric Ifune
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Re: Portuguese whites vs white Burgundy...

Post by Eric Ifune »

I'm going to add good Encruzado from the Dao. Not at all buttery.
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