A pair of old Warre's

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Dan D
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A pair of old Warre's

Post by Dan D »

I've always been a sherry drinker, but I liked the looks of these two older bottles of Warre's ports when I saw them at the flea market, so I decided to give it a try.

There is no bottling date anywhere on the front label, and there is no back label. I'm hoping I might get an estimate of age on the pair, and whether they are likely to be drinkable.
The bottles and contents appear to be in good condition. Very little evaporation.

I looked up the importer, and Frank Schoonmaker Selections apparently became defunct in 1975, so I am assuming they are at least that old.

Thanks for your help. DD

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Roy Hersh
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Roy Hersh »

I have had a couple of examples of Nimrod, but will get the Nimrod expert, Peter Meek to weigh in here. He has consumed many cases of that wine and likely would know more info.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Dan D
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Dan D »

Thanks Roy.

DD
Peter W. Meek
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Peter W. Meek »

Unfortunately, my experience with Nimrod was all with current-production (at the time) bottles. I started keeping track of my wine purchases in 2006, and from then until Warre's quit producing Nimrod in mid-2008, I seem to have purchased around 350 bottles (including my 13 case panic purchase when I heard they had ceased production). I have one left, which I am keeping just because I can't face opening it.

Nimrod was a tawny that matched my palate perfectly, and had the further advantage of costing about 1/2 the price of the other tawnies I liked which were mostly 20 YO from various makers. I now drink mostly Ferreira 20 YO, but I'm not sure whether it is really close in flavor/aroma profile to the Nimrod, or whether my tastes changed as I experimented looking for a replacement. Nimrod was an aged tawny, and I heard all kinds of rumors about the actual ages (in barrel) of the wines that were used to blend it. I heard numbers ranging from an average age of 3 years up to 15 years. I have also heard people opine on the age that it "tasted like", and those estimates varied almost as widely.

There was never any indication on the bottles (until very near the end?) of when the wine was put into bottles. I believe I was once told that it was possible to estimate the bottling date from the Selo number, but it was only an estimate because they just grabbed a handful from the unsorted supply of Selos when doing a bottling run. I believe they recorded the Selo numbers with a video of the bottling line, but that seems like a lot of video to store permanently.

Nimrod was (like all tawnies - indeed all Ports) extremely subject to change after opening. It held up fairly well for a couple of weeks and then faded. It never got to tasting bad, but it seemed to become a bit uninteresting after several weeks. But not always. I have a friend who is essentially a non-drinker. He will have a sip of something sweet occasionally, so I gave him a bottle of Nimrod every New Years Day. One year he offered to open it on the day, but recollected that he had an open bottle. Some investigation at the back of the high kitchen cupboard revealed that he had an opened bottle AND an unopened bottle. The opened bottle was likely to have been open for two years and just sitting half-full under the T-cork at room temperature for all that time. It had probably been opened a half dozen times (refreshing the oxygen) to get an occasional sip. It was really good! It had the nutty, slightly astringent flavor that vintage ports can (but don't always) get after 4 to 8 decades of careful aging.

The fill levels seem fairly close (suggesting a similar age). Usually Warre's fill to up inside the capsule, so there has been quite a bit of evaporation on both bottles. Could the Nimrod label have been printed with an "aged" look? I see the etching of Nimrod the Mighty Hunter just as it was in later production bottles.

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As you can see, the label is printed on a tan or beige paper, and might get fairly old-looking in a fairly short time (as in not too many decades).

If those were my bottles, I would open them, prepared to drink immediately (in case the remaining flavor and aroma should prove to be fugitive), but also prepared to wait (in case the aroma and flavor should prove to be unpleasant and I wanted to wait to see whether they would improve with a bit of time).

Whether they drink well or not the emptied bottles would make just about as good souvenirs (for me) as the full ones (but probably nowhere near as commercially valuable, but I don't get the impression that you bought these as investments). My own feeling is that wine that I do not intend to drink at some point is worthless to me. An empty bottle (from which I tasted the wine) is just as valuable to me as a full bottle from which I will never drink the wine.

Let us know what you decide, and (if you drink them) how they taste.
--Pete
(Sesquipedalian Man)
Dan D
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Dan D »

Thanks Pete, for the very thorough reply.

I actually have two bottles of the Nimrod. One I plan to try myself and one to give to a friend who enjoys port. That's why I'm hoping they are drinkable. Both bottles of the Nimrod are identical. The labels on these are not printed on brown paper, but are printed on a white enamel paper with brown ink. The streaks on the labels are where the ink has scraped off, and differers on the two bottles, so I don't think it was printed that way.

Thanks again for the information. It gives me an idea of what to look for when I do the tasting. I'll be sure to post my impressions when I've tasted it.

DD
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Andy Velebil
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Andy Velebil »

Cool bottles. I love seeing these old labels.
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Gary Banker
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Gary Banker »

The old bottles' labels appear to say "25/32 Qt". I've never seen that before. Was that common at some time in the past?
Bradley Bogdan
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Bradley Bogdan »

I've seen it before on importer labels, but not on actual bottles, though I've also seen other non-metric indications of volume that are escaping me at the moment


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Dan D
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Dan D »

The bottle itself is marked 75cl. I assume the labels were added by the American importer.
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Roy Hersh
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Roy Hersh »

I recently took part in a bottle that was labeled:

"One quart, one pint, 12 ounces" ... talk about unique.
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Roy Hersh »

BTW, thank you Peter for dropping by and sharing your experience. Great to have you back, even if only for a fleeting moment. :scholar:
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Dan D
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Dan D »

Well, I opened one of the bottles of Nimrod the other day, and here is what I found:

The cork was nearly black, but was solid and seemed to seal well. It came out in one piece.
The port had thrown a lot of sediment, so I had to decant it carefully. Even so, there was a slight haze to it in the glass.
It tasted excellent. Being a sherry drinker, I have modest exposure to ports, but was pleasantly surprised at this one. No 'off' odors or disagreeable tastes or aftertastes. It was very full bodied with great legs, and a lot of residual sweetness. The aftertaste had a bit more alcohol bite than I was expecting and was very lingering. Overall a pleasing experience. My wife enjoyed it also, even though she isn't a big sherry fan.
I gave the second bottle to a friend who is a more dedicated port drinker, and will be interested in seeing what he thinks of it.
I still have the bottle of Kings Tawny, and will share it with him if I think he deserves it. :->

Dan
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Andy Velebil
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Andy Velebil »

Dan D wrote:Well, I opened one of the bottles of Nimrod the other day, and here is what I found:

The cork was nearly black, but was solid and seemed to seal well. It came out in one piece.
The port had thrown a lot of sediment, so I had to decant it carefully. Even so, there was a slight haze to it in the glass.
It tasted excellent. Being a sherry drinker, I have modest exposure to ports, but was pleasantly surprised at this one. No 'off' odors or disagreeable tastes or aftertastes. It was very full bodied with great legs, and a lot of residual sweetness. The aftertaste had a bit more alcohol bite than I was expecting and was very lingering. Overall a pleasing experience. My wife enjoyed it also, even though she isn't a big sherry fan.
I gave the second bottle to a friend who is a more dedicated port drinker, and will be interested in seeing what he thinks of it.
I still have the bottle of Kings Tawny, and will share it with him if I think he deserves it. :->

Dan
Cool, thanks for letting us know and glad it was still drinking nicely.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Peter W. Meek
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Peter W. Meek »

Back for another “fleeting visit”. Very interesting tasting note on that old bottle of Nimrod. I have a single bottle from the final production over a decade ago. It’s in storage with all my other wines at a friend's warehouse. (He's a wine importer, so conditions are fairly good for keeping wine. I think you remember Chaad, don’t you Roy?) When we get settled in our new house (we’re in an 800 sqft apartment these days) I’ll have to consider whether the time is right to try that one.
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Re: A pair of old Warre's

Post by Andy Velebil »

Peter W. Meek wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:44 am Back for another “fleeting visit”. Very interesting tasting note on that old bottle of Nimrod. I have a single bottle from the final production over a decade ago. It’s in storage with all my other wines at a friend's warehouse. (He's a wine importer, so conditions are fairly good for keeping wine. I think you remember Chaad, don’t you Roy?) When we get settled in our new house (we’re in an 800 sqft apartment these days) I’ll have to consider whether the time is right to try that one.
Welcome back, hope all has been well? Let us know how it's holding up when you do try it.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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