Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

This forum is for discussing all things Madeira - vintages, recommendations, tasting notes, etc.

Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil

Post Reply
Alan Gardner
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Alan Gardner »

This post refers to a tasting held recently for the members of the ‘Estufarians’ – a Madeira tasting group in Ontario that has been meeting for over 30 years. 22 members attended which explains why I couldn’t invite any of the worthy friends I’ve met over the years. Our scoring system is based on 20 points (all Toronto clubs have used a similar format since 1974 – predating a certain Mr. Parker’s emergence). However, having attended many US based tastings, I can ‘translate’ our system to a good approximation of the 100 point system – and I have ‘translated’ my scores as accurately I can.
The wines (all decanted a week before the tasting) were NOT tasted blind (except for the two 1720’s which were not identified as to which had the ‘undoubted’ provenance):

1720 Pather – H.M.Borges (Bottled 1989; acquired from the cellar of José Gonçalves Borges via Rare Wine Company).
Modern black bottle with surprisingly short cork (<1 inch). Bottle still carries the original handwritten name on label, plus a later label attesting to its history and resale through Rare Wine Company. Very fine sediment.
In the glass, medium gold, with even coloration to edge, and a slightly milky touch on the rim. On the nose, immediately sweet with honey notes and a background of muscat.
On the palate, immediately acidic with concentrated peach and nectarine notes. Hint of botrytis, wiped out by the re-emergence of the huge acidity, followed by notes of fresh tangerine. Remarkably vibrant, showing typical Bual structure but that huge acid shortened the finish and muted its complexity. Probably good for another 100 years! My Score 97 points.

1720 Pather – H.M.Borges (acquired from a Private Cellar, along with a cache of other Madeiras).
Heavily encrusted black bottle with brittle wax over foil (the foil had adhered to the cork). Cork about 1.5 inches long with bottom 75% black, and top 25% (dark walnut color) crumbled after removing corkscrew. Sediment dark black and much thicker.
Color paler than the previous sample (lighter gold) with noticeable bottle stink upon opening. The color was more even – paler towards edge but less contrast as the centre was lighter to start with. Rim was actually darker than the previous sample. On the nose, also sweet with intense mandarin notes with toasty vanilla emerging, changing to a bitter orange finish – noticeably drier than previous sample on the finish. That persuaded me that this sample seemed more like a Terrantez in structure, albeit the aromatics initially suggested Bual. My Score 95 points.
NOTE: The above two wines were served without identifying the source. The intent was to try and deduce whether they were the same wine (possibly bottled 50-80 years apart). A ‘vote’ split almost 50-50 on whether they were, indeed, the same wine! But nobody doubted they were both very old Madeiras. We also voted on our ‘favourite’ – and again the room split 50-50.
And, the two were served with Ontario Pheasant “Façon Gaston Gérard” with Potato Confit, Comté cheese and a Chicken reduction.

1820 Solera Boal – T.T.C. Lomelino (Bottle 1831 of 2000) [Bottled 1962 but released 1970 on the 150th anniversary of Lomelino]
Dark Brown color with even coloration to rim. Very sparse light-brown sediment, but heavy deposit of dark film on the side of the bottle. Concentrated vanilla pudding nose, with notes of clementine at start and lemon a bit later, becoming almost like chocolate pudding with a touch of maple as it sat in the glass. On the palate exploded with chocolate, orange and, also some banana notes as well but quickly turned to a more vanilla/white chocolate sensation. Ultimately lacked the structure I would expect in a Bual, but Robert Parker would have loved it! My score 93 points.

1820 Vintage Bual – Christopher’s
Foil (but no wax). Label torn but fully legible. Very long cork showing signs of worm, which split horizontally, but extracted in two firm pieces. Sediment very light but bottle very crusted on inside with tannins.
Dark brown in colour with even shading to edge.
On nose high-toned with volatile acidity. Some remarked as acetone, but I noted amyl acetate (often used as artificial pear flavour in foods). Aromatically lighter and fresher – more orange blossoms than peel.
On palate very rich and unctuous (glycerine) and still very high acid showing the knife-edge balance between sweet and acid. Complex with bursts of acid and citrus fruits with an occasional hint of apricot. My score 97+ points. (I’ve added the plus to show that this was my favourite wine of the tasting).
The above two wines were actually served earlier in the meal with Hudson Valley Foie Gras, Armagnac and Confit of Artichoke.

1920 Vinho Generoso, ‘Caves de S. Pedro’ – H.M. Borges (paper label and crest, no selo).
Cork easily removed in 1 piece. Foil but no wax seal. After removal cork split into 3 pieces horizontally (darkest at bottom, lightest at top) so I suspect 3 (at least) storage positions for the bottle over the years. Cork stained for about 80% of its length.
Very heavy sediment with bright shiny black crystals. Light gold colour with even edge.
On nose, sweet orange peel with some coffee/toffee notes.
On palate, light and sweet orange which faded with medium length. Simple but pleasant and showing less acid than all the other wines. Speculated to be Tinta Negra, as the profile didn’t fit the other varietals. My score 89 points.

1920 Malvasia, ‘Favilla Vieira’, Reserva Velha – Barbeito [bottled Nov 2009].
The only wine with a selo. The cork split vertically with staining only on its base. Hardly any sediment.
Dark Brown colour, maybe a touch lighter at the edge.
On nose a deep treacle reminiscent of palm sugar, rather than cane. This evolved to something that reminded me of the Terry’s Chocolate Orange Candy.
On the palate huge acid and fudge sweetness with noticeable alcohol. Clearly MUCH too young – except I don’t think I’ll be around when it fully matures! My score 92 points.
The last two wines were served with a dessert of Foie Gras Crème Brûlée, with Vanilla Cream and Valrhona 66% Chocolate.

And a brief assessment: Was the 1720 worth its current auction price of $20,000? I certainly wouldn’t buy it at that price – but would I possibly pay $1000 to try a sample (of just over an ounce)? If I hadn’t already tasted it, I might be tempted!
User avatar
Eric Ifune
Posts: 3412
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States of America - USA

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Eric Ifune »

Two bottles of Pather! [notworthy.gif] Gotta be a first.
If I understand correctly, the Rare Wine Co. version, Is from Jose Borges,one of the grandsons. He rebottled the bottles he inherited. I believe all bottles of Pather were originally bottled at the same time from demijohn in front of the surviving family. Did the Rare Wine Co. version seem to get more oxygen during/before rebottling. I've seen other tasting notes thinking it might be Muscat.
Daniel Fraley
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:17 am
Location: Private, United States

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Daniel Fraley »

Amazing occasion and tradition Alan, thanks so much for sharing. Super jealous! [cheers.gif]
Alan Gardner
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Alan Gardner »

I'm pretty sure it was NOT rebottled!
My bottle still had the original 'identity' sticker that was put on all the wines (not just the Pather).
All of the wines (I've had the 1780 twice) were put in identical bottles and a sticker attached to each. After 'distribution' some inheritors added stencils or labelling and I understand one 'inheritor' (I can't recall which one, but it's somewwhere in my files) also had them recorked (IIRC for sale at Christie's).
If there was any rebottling (after the mass bottling) I'm not aware of it.

The other bottle was significantly older. I assumed between 1916 (distribution from HMB estate) and '1930's' (João Maria transfer to demi-john), as the 'story' implies João Maria kept the inheritance intact. But that's just an assumption 'that fits the story' and the physical state of the bottle, which seemed to me to be at least 50 years old. Plus I am aware of claims that some was bottled around 1970 (based on Christie's sale notes). However, my 'private' purchase was clearly older than 1970 - different shape and size bottle.

As to the 'grape' - my guess is 'field blend' or possibly some topping up along the way. I knew of the muscat 'documentation' and hope that it didn't influence my reactions. I only got that in the 'private' sample - maybe the notes came from a similar 'older' bottle.
Le Gamin de Paris
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:30 am
Location: London & Paris

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Le Gamin de Paris »

Thanks for sharing Alan, what a fabulous evening [cheers.gif]

Do you happen to have any photos of the 2 Pather bottles? I'm especially intrigued by the older one.
Andy M
Alan Gardner
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Alan Gardner »

That's a big issue.
There are some fakes around so I deliberately chose NOT to post any pictures, to prevent potential 'counterfeiters' from using the info.

BUT, I saw a 'very similar bottle' (being deliberately vague) posted on the internet
https://www.garrafeiranacional.com/en/1 ... ather.html
- this is (was?) different from the various Christie pictures that are around.

But I just checked that link and "it's not currently working" - it WAS working in April (I haven't checked Wayback Machine to see if it survives there).

If you come across any other pictures, I'll be happy to comment on any differences - just don't want to give ammunition to allow any future forgeries.
Eric Menchen
Posts: 6360
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm
Location: Longmont, Colorado, United States of America - USA

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Eric Menchen »

Alan Gardner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 12:06 pm But I just checked that link and "it's not currently working" - it WAS working in April (I haven't checked Wayback Machine to see if it survives there).
At the moment, I'm not finding any links to Garrafeira Nacional working, even the root link from Google. I hit this problem last week when I was trying to find where their new shop in Porto is located. I faintly recall some link working, but can't find it today.

The Wayback Machine came up empty on that link too. I think they focus less on commercial sites like that.
User avatar
Glenn E.
Posts: 8179
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:49 am
Location: Sammamish, Washington, United States of America - USA
Contact:

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Glenn E. »

Eric Menchen wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 9:20 am At the moment, I'm not finding any links to Garrafeira Nacional working, even the root link from Google. I hit this problem last week when I was trying to find where their new shop in Porto is located. I faintly recall some link working, but can't find it today.
Side topic:

R. das Flores 60, 4050-265 Porto, Portugal

It's just a little farther up the hill behind the Mercado on Praca Infante Dom Henrique. Very close to, albeit quite uphill from, the riverfront.

But yeah, I've been getting 429 errors (too many requests) on any link to GN since the announcement.
Glenn Elliott
Alan Gardner
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Alan Gardner »

Thanks Eric,
I also tried their general website with the same message returned.
Maybe they're updating inventory or some technical reason.

Hoping the site will return soon - but still wary about posting my own pictures for the stated reasons - don't want to cause possible issues with genuine enthusiasts, nor give ammunition to the 'bad guys'.
Andreas Platt
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:04 pm
Location: Vienna and Sacramento, AT&US

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Andreas Platt »

working for me...
Alan Gardner
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Alan Gardner »

But still not for me!
Have you refreshed? Could be a cached version.
Yev Nyden
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:24 pm

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Yev Nyden »

That page as well as any other page I try on their website, continue to return 429 response code for me, which means:
The HTTP 429 Too Many Requests response status code indicates the user has sent too many requests in a given amount of time ("rate limiting").
I haven't been on garrafeiranacional.com for a long time - someone who still has access to the website should tell them something's going wrong with their web server.

A temporary solution could be to try loading it from another network location (IP address) and possibly a new browser (or in private mode). Not sure what their web server considers to be a unique user.
Andreas Platt
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:04 pm
Location: Vienna and Sacramento, AT&US

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Andreas Platt »

Alan Gardner wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 7:45 am But still not for me!
Have you refreshed? Could be a cached version.
not cached...but working right now (still).
Attachments
Screenshot 2024-05-07 185107.jpg
Screenshot 2024-05-07 185107.jpg (63.78 KiB) Viewed 167 times
Alan Gardner
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Alan Gardner »

Thanks Andreas.

Shows that there is 'more than one' bottle type.
Now, if only we could verify whether they are all 'genuine'!

Oh, for the days when Madeira was inexpensive enough that it didn't reward 'counterfeiting'.
User avatar
Eric Ifune
Posts: 3412
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States of America - USA

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Eric Ifune »

I've seen several of the five family wines of HM Borges and they seem to have the same style bottles.
Andreas Platt
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:04 pm
Location: Vienna and Sacramento, AT&US

Re: Tasting A Dozen Centuries Of Madeira

Post by Andreas Platt »

I have always been wondering what may be the reason and origin of those newer type bottles.

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5956811

Besides I for one too have always understood the initial stock to exclusively and entirely been bottled in the old bottles.
Post Reply