The Usage of "Very Old" for Tawny Port.

[Mike J. W.]

Does anyone know when Port Producers stopped using the term "Very Old" on their Tawny Port labels? I'm entering my bottles into a spreadsheet and I'm trying to date an Offley Baron (as opposed to Barao) De Forrester Very Old Tawny, but nothing on the bottle indicates when it was bottled. It does have an IVDP selo on it, so the oldest it could be is 2003. Knowing when they did away with "Very Old" would be helpful. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Very Old typically meant a 20 year-old Tawny, correct?

[Glenn E.]

The rules changed in 2022, IIRC. A TWAIOA from the 30, 40, or 50 category may currently be described as Very Old. Similarly, a Colheita that is at least 30 years old may be described as Very Old. TWAIOA 10 and 20 may only be describe as Old. And the same also applies to Colheitas that are between 10 and 29 years old.

Prior to that rule change, I believe that a 20 Year Old Tawny Port could be described as Very Old, but that a Colheita still had to be 30 years old. I may have those reversed.

So, my guess is that you have an Offley 20 Year Old Tawny Port bottled before 2022. (And, as you said because of the Selo, after 2003.)

[Mike J. W.]

The rules changed in 2022, IIRC. A TWAIOA from the 30, 40, or 50 category may currently be described as Very Old. Similarly, a Colheita that is at least 30 years old may be described as Very Old. TWAIOA 10 and 20 may only be describe as Old. And the same also applies to Colheitas that are between 10 and 29 years old.

Prior to that rule change, I believe that a 20 Year Old Tawny Port could be described as Very Old, but that a Colheita still had to be 30 years old. I may have those reversed.

So, my guess is that you have an Offley 20 Year Old Tawny Port bottled before 2022. (And, as you said because of the Selo, after 2003.)

Thanks Glenn. I'm guessing it's closer to 2003 than 2022 based on the label, bottle etc. The weird thing is they went all in on producing this bottling. It has a wax cap, a small pamphlet and each bottle is individually numbered. It seems like a lot of marketing for a 20 year-old but maybe they were trying to jumpstart the Offley Tawnies?

[Glenn E.]

It could also be much older. The next break point is 80 years old, at which point they can be called Very Very Old.

It's just a little odd to see a bottle with no indication of age of any kind, except to be called Very Old. That was much more common long ago... but something with an IVDP label is too modern for that kind of lazy application of terms.

"Baron de Forrester" is also used on Offley Colheitas, at least in the 1970s and 1980s, but in that case there should be a year on the label, too.

Can you post pictures of the bottle?

[Mike J. W.]

It could also be much older. The next break point is 80 years old, at which point they can be called Very Very Old.

It's just a little odd to see a bottle with no indication of age of any kind, except to be called Very Old. That was much more common long ago... but something with an IVDP label is too modern for that kind of lazy application of terms.

"Baron de Forrester" is also used on Offley Colheitas, at least in the 1970s and 1980s, but in that case there should be a year on the label, too.

Can you post pictures of the bottle?

Glenn,

Here are a few pics. There's no back label other than the auction house's label. The back label was lost over time before I acquired the bottle. I imagine that probably would have had some type of date on it. The bottle itself is a frosted green bottle which is also pretty uncommon.

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image_67159809.JPG (2.52 MiB) Viewed 19216 times

[Glenn E.]

Here's a very similar label, but in this case it is clearly declared to be a 20 Year Old Tawny Port and it was bottled in 1980.

https://adnwinespirit.com/produit/offle ... forrester/

There are also lots of examples of Colheita versions of this label, which are easily identified by the "XXXX Reserve" below the words Baron de Forrester on the label.

I'm growing more confident that this is a 20 Year Old Tawny Port, but the fact that it doesn't actually say that is still very weird for something bottled after 2003. It should say something more about what it is... even just a Tawny Reserve would say that after 2003. (And a basic Tawny would not say "Very Old" on the label.)

[Mike J. W.]

Here's a very similar label, but in this case it is clearly declared to be a 20 Year Old Tawny Port and it was bottled in 1980.

https://adnwinespirit.com/produit/offle ... forrester/

There are also lots of examples of Colheita versions of this label, which are easily identified by the "XXXX Reserve" below the words Baron de Forrester on the label.

I'm growing more confident that this is a 20 Year Old Tawny Port, but the fact that it doesn't actually say that is still very weird for something bottled after 2003. It should say something more about what it is... even just a Tawny Reserve would say that after 2003. (And a basic Tawny would not say "Very Old" on the label.)

Very similar label with the exception of the 20 years not being on mine. The bottle itself is different in that the embossed crest is round whereas mine is a bird of some type. The one you referenced doesn't look like it was wax sealed. It's also very strange that they would keep a very similar label from 1980 until 2003, with the more recent one (mine) not having "20 years" on it. I'm inclined to think it's a 20 year old Tawny as well, but it's all pretty strange. Thanks for your help, Glenn.