Henriques and Henriques ancient Reservas

[Andreas Platt]

Just added the picture with the golden label still over the H&H; I then removed the golden label (was a difficult task) to "unearthen" the H&H label and now placed on the opposite side of the bottle so that both labels are legible.

As for the numbers my guess is that they had (back then) and still have a counted inventory of bottles and that the "bottles in existence" refers to their company "stash". That would make sense to me as would the numbers of the remaining bottles (a few hundred each sound realistic - back then).

As for the stories with inheritance 1850 and so on I can not say anything else than that the HAMMER CO numbers are all 100% reflecting the H&H labels and where would HAMMER had the Vintage-info if not from H&H and why should every stated Vintage (bottling, rebottling etc.) be correct EXCEPT the harvest one.

Of course, when I asked that question years ago (directly) I didn't get more info than: "that we have no records from the old days, only the bottles."

If you're interested in the initial answer send me your email adress and I'll happily forward.

Cheers

Andy

[Andreas Platt]

And I wanted to add that besides the Vintage remark on the HAMMER Corp. golden label, which we could (if one wants) doubt, there are AUTHENTIC and ORIGINAL H&H white labels (for the GOB as well as for the MALVAZIA) which state the Vintages from H&H's "point of view".

[Le Gamin de Paris]

Thanks for restarting this thread Andreas, I'm enjoying it.

Here's another photo for Grand Old Boal 1860 from Chrissa Imports.

https://www.christies.com/img/LotImages ... g?mode=max

Only strange thing is if we take the case of WS Boal, when it was first bottled in 1927 with front and back labels applied, if it was indeed 1848 it's curious they didnt add the vintage year to the label on either side of the bottle.

I'm liking your theory on the dates Andreas, it makes sense. For the sake of exploring all the possibilities the other thought I have is the vintage years could have been added for marketing purposes i.e. either to sell an old bottle in US market if it has a year on the label it's easier to command a higher price/sell? Thinking back to a different thread on FTLOP there was a suspicion that some of the vintages on South Side Madeira could have best applied for commercial reasons

[Le Gamin de Paris]

Just found this, more questions now about the quantity of bottles...

https://www.fortheloveofport.com/tndb/1 ... ge-Madeira

In the photo above of Grand Old Boal 1860 it has different bottle totals to the photo posted on page 3 of this thread (340/353 total bottles as opposed to 872) it also has the signature of H&H director. Although could just be a mistake with the printing

[Andreas Platt]

...Only strange thing is...

I share your thoughts, and surely enough I am sure that this is something that can't be solved anymore.

I even tried to contact Hammer Corp. (feels like centuries ago) but they are out of trade. In 1998 they relocated from to Cleveland to Streetsborough (both Ohio) before 1999 been sold to Glazer's (of Ohio) which now is Southern Glazer's; Alfred Hammer died in 1998, John Hammer 2017, George Hammer died in 2021.

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_oh/87129

https://chroniclet.com/news/268059/cork ... ge-hammer/

But what the heck...it's just figures of years, don't change the taste profile and let's just say it plain: the juice is great, whatever the year of harvest it might have been.

[Andreas Platt]

One more update on the Reservas, and this is something I stumbled over when re-reading Cossarts book.

We were discussing earlier about the different Verdelhos that exist as ancient Reservas, those being

- H&H Velho Verdelho "John Cossart Collection"
- H&H R.R. Reserva with golden label https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-6343762
- H&H R.R. Reserva with white label https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-5956983
- H&H Dry Verdelho Reserva (on opposite side golden label "Verdelho Vintage 1863"); embossed glass
- H&H V.L. Verdelho; embossed glass

There was suspicion if "VL Verdelho" is the same as or even means "Velho Verdelho".

I now will quote Cossart from his book page 159:

"My friend ... acquired ... this wine and was puzzled to find ... initials V.L. ... I was able to inform him that they were the initials of Virginia Lomelino, Mr. Henriques's mother, from whom he had inherited the lote in wood."

And the wine is...Henriques Verdelho 1858 from the Ribeiro Real Vineyard!!!

[Andreas Platt]

Long time, no additions to this topic.

So, being quite enthusiastic about H&H's old stocks (and not even more about those Reservas which were in their stock but are gone already), I yesterday received a bottle which again brings out some news to the story.

I in the past explained my find-outs about the possible vintages for:

1) H&H Grand Old Boal: Vintage 1860
2) H&H WS Boal: Vintage 1848
3) H&H Malvazia: Vintage 1875
4) H&H Sercial: Vintage 1864
5) H&H Verdelho: Vintage 1863
6) H&H Terrantez: Vintage unknown to me
7) H&H Ribeiro Real: Vintage unknown to me; according to Christies "Verdelho"; also, 2 versions exist...one with the golden label and one with the H&H white paper label
8) H&H Verdelho Reserva V.L. (Virginia Lomelino) 1858; according to Cossart's book

So, what's new?

I received a bottle of H&H Reserva Ribeiro Real...as used with the white...paper label and on the opposite side with full indication "Madeira Reserva Ribeiro Real 1840".

So, this should now (at least for this bottle or better for the 994 mentioned bottles) proof the Vintage 1840.

UPDATE: this bottle of RR 1840 has now (officially) been identified as fake; just to warn anybody out there!!!

Pictures removed.

[Andy Velebil]

Andres,
If I’m reading the label correctly it was last bottled in 1960. However the bottle it is in wasn’t made in 1960. It a relatively more modern bottle as evident by the tab under the label.

[Andreas Platt]

Hi Andy,
I saw this, too.
Bought from a reputable dealer, and both labels being genuine as well as the capsule is obviously fine, I wonder if you have an indication when those "marked" bottles were started to be produced?
It could well be that this was rebottled after 1960 and was not marked on the bottle. I have seen that quite a few times.
From the english text on the front I would assume this is an 1980ies label.

[Eric Ifune]

The labels can be a bit confusing. Sometmes they say rebottling and other times recorking. Not sure if they really rebottle but it could be possible. I know Ricardo Freitas has been known to dump bottles into a cask for a short time to give them more air before rebottling.

[Andy Velebil]

Hi Andy,
I saw this, too.
Bought from a reputable dealer, and both labels being genuine as well as the capsule is obviously fine, I wonder if you have an indication when those "marked" bottles were started to be produced?
It could well be that this was rebottled after 1960 and was not marked on the bottle. I have seen that quite a few times.
From the english text on the front I would assume this is an 1980ies label.

IIRC I want to say in the mid to latter 1990’s. The “tab” Is so automated bottling machines can align the bottle so all labels are put in the same spot.

The black wax was used by counterfeiters in Portugal. But it was also used lightly by legitimate producers so that’s not conclusive.

The label condition and apparent bottle age does give me pause. It almost appears the label condition is “manufactured” to be older than it is. But that’s hard to tell from the pics.