Producer Styles

Rob Walters · Post by **Rob Walters** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:54 am

I'm fairly new to Ports and I've just subscribed here as I find I am drinking more and more of them. I'd like to get clear about the various "house styles" produced. I am particularly interested in the difference between: Dows, Taylors, Grahams, Warres, Fonseca and Quinta do Noval. Is there any reading on the site, or anywhere else for that matter, that disusses this? It doesn't need to be overly complex just a rough idea.
Thanks

Marc J. · Post by **Marc J.** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:04 pm

In my experience Dow's is somewhat drier (less sweet) than most while Grahams tends to produce fairly sweet wines. Warres falls somewhere between those two houses and is on the opulent side. Taylors typically is very structured and had a tannic backbone that needs many years to soften and Fonseca is a little (read: slightly) more forthcoming than Taylors - I've found the fruit to be a bit more pronounced in Fonseca's ports, especially in the medium term. Quinta Do Noval on average has somewhat softer tannins than Taylor or Fonseca and as a result of this their vintage ports are somewhat more approachable at a younger age.

Rob Walters · Post by **Rob Walters** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:12 pm

Thanks Marc. I am also following the "what do you like..." thread staretd by Roy. I missed that last night. Still would be interested to know so good reading on this subject. Would be interesting to know, for example, why the styles are different.

Marc J. · Post by **Marc J.** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:22 pm

To a large extent the styles reflect choices that have made by the individual houses. For example Dow's typically arrests the fermentation at a later stage than most and as a result a greater amount of sugar has been converted into alcohol, thereby producing a VP with a lower natural sugar content (drier). Of course, Grahams which is on the sweet side is the reverse of that. Another factor revolves around where the grapes were sourced from. Some quintas that lie in relatively shady areas such as Bom Retiro produce grapes that are quite different in character than the same grape varities grown in full sun, baking hot areas like the Douro Superior. The target market for a firms wines is also a determining factor in the style of wine that they may produce. For example, for many years Ramos-Pinto produced vintage ports that were on the light side and early maturing. They were very upfront about the nature of their wines. One of their principal markets was Brazil and they were producing wines that matched the tastes preferred by that market. Recently they have been trying to make larger inroads into the U.K./U.S. market and have subsequently beefed up their VP quite a bit (the 1994 is probably their burliest wine to date). These are just a some of the myraid of factors that go into determining the style of a particular house.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:58 am

Marc,

Very nice response indeed. Well thought out too!

Robert,

Welcome to our humble Forum and I hope you will enjoy your time spent here! We've had a lot of new people join in the past month and I try to make sure they all are greeted and made to feel comfortable here.

Thanks for bringing this excellent topic to the fore. Before stating my own opinion, I'd like to see more responses to your provocative thread.

Again, welcome aboard. Enjoy the ride!

Sincerely,

Roy

Rob Walters · Post by **Rob Walters** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:10 pm

Thanks Roy. Thoroughly enjoying my membership thus far. Invaluable to have a site that this specialised in the area of Port and Madeira. Tell me, do you have any thoughts on 80 and 87 Noval Nacional? I'm looking at buying some.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:39 pm

Here you go Robert:

1980 Quinta do Noval Nacional Vintage Port
I'm a big fan of this vintage and am rarely disappointed by Ports that I have had with this date on the bottle. Dow and Graham's are two of my favorite 1980 VPs. The Nacional shows a lighter cranberry color and clear rim. This is a wine on its upswing. I enjoyed the minerality and a gentle hint of mint as well, with attractive, ripe blackberry fruit highlights. Someone mentioned 'kumquat' but I can neither confirm nor deny the claim, as I have never had one. There was a smoky and woodsy note on the palate that I only noticed in one previous wine above. The 1980 offers a medium-light body but a smooth and enduring finish which does not put this in the top tier of Nacionals. Overall, a good and balanced wine that is enjoyable today even though I believe the solid structure will allow this to improve over the next dozen years. DRINK/HOLD 92 points (2004 02 10)

1987 Quinta do Noval Nacional Vintage Port
Darker color than most of the wines today and the only cloudy wine of the group. Initially it imparted a pretty funky nose but it wasn't corked. It was somewhat oxidized and I wondered if this bottle had possibly seen some seepage or temperature variance. Anyway, It was a light and elegant wine that conveyed some herbs, mint, orange peel and raisined notes. I believe this bottle did not do the wine justice as previous bottles have shown even darker, nearly opaque and overall, considerably bigger. DRINK
84 points (2004 02 07)

Rob Walters · Post by **Rob Walters** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:58 pm

Thanks Roy. Interesting with the 87. I note you wrote that this bottle had not shown as well as others. I'd be interested to know where is this vintage at overall. Neither of these vintages seem to appear in many tastings although the are reviewed by 'the Speculator'. The 87 gets a high score (which doesn't mean much to me) hence I am interested if other bottles have shown well for you.

Otto Nieminen · Post by **Otto Nieminen** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:37 pm

Rob, I certainly don't have the experience of most posters here, but here are some thoughts on the houses to add in addition to Marc's nice analysis. I tend to picture the character of fruit in colours - it's not really synaesthesia, but more what scents they remind me of in regard to berries and fruits and flowers. I would also like to hear if anyone else thinks of scents in terms of colours like this, or whether this is utterly useless information for others!

Dow's I find to be a savoury style, with some dark fruit characters, drier in many vintages (but '00 and '03 were IMO sweeter than usual - if not in actual RS, then in the way they tasted the times I've had them).

Taylor's is a very sweet style, but as Marc said, strongly structured. I find the fruit very bright and red toned.

Graham's I find also a very sweet style with bright and red toned fruit, but I don't find it as stern as Taylor's.

Warre's: just like Taylor and Graham make a pair in my world, Dow and Warre are similar to me in their darker aromatics.

Fonseca is to me a rather exotic Port. I often find it is blue toned and strongly floral yet still with an elegance to it.

Quinta do Noval unfortunately I have tasted too little of to say much. The few I've had seem to fall more in the Dow/Warre category of my experience than elsewhere.

I hope this makes sense to some others - I am a bit worried that like in table wines, my perceptions of Port might be rather "odd" and not easy to comprehend...

-O-

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:48 pm

Otto,

I like this comparison with colour - I also often find myself thinking of certain flavours that go along with colours (typically for me, the darker the colour, the deeper the intensity of tannins, the deeper and more complex the colour.)

Todd

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:20 am

Rob,

When you mention the 1987 and 1980 vintages in your last posting, were you referencing the overall vintage or Nacional in particular?

Rob Walters · Post by **Rob Walters** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:27 am

Hi Roy, yes I was talking about the nacional in particular. Regards,

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:37 am

The Quinta do Noval Nacionals tend to excel when there is a "7" at the end of the date. The 1947, 1967, 1997 all come to mind fondly. It is hard to pick between those. The 1987 is typically a solid Vintage Port, albeit not a great one like the troika above ... especially the last two.

Similarly, Nacionals ending with "0" have been known to knock my socks off. The 1970 and 2000 both come to mind (early and often!). The 1980 Nacional is not in their class, which is saying a lot for that dynamic duo, because I do like the 1980 quite a bit too. It is certainly worth buying, drinking and/or cellaring -- today.

Rob Walters · Post by **Rob Walters** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:09 am

Thanks Roy. This really helps.

Rob Walters · Post by **Rob Walters** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:10 am

Oh, and I have bought some of both these vintages amongst others!

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:43 pm

"amongst others"

Ok, what a tease. Care to share which vintages?