2003 Noval at JJ Buckley

[Alan Rath]

Just got an offer from JJ Buckley (the retail arm of Wine Commune) for 2003 Noval at $43.99. No affiliation, etc., but I've done plenty of business with them and find their stock to generally be in excellent condition.

http://www.jjbuckley.com/2003-Quinta-do ... 3~6591~750

Regards,
Alan

[Roy Hersh]

Thanks for the heads up Alan. That is a really good price for this baby. Great juice and upside potential. Good to see you back and we appreciate this offering.

[Scott Anaya]

Tooo funy.....I just finished getting my 6 pak order in and had the offer cut and pasted ready to post here--you didn't think I'd post first and try to buy after did you

But alas, Alan beat me to it. I definetly agree with Roy, upon tasting this, it is pretty great juice, and at this price got me to purchase my first 2003 VP.

[Alan Rath]

Well, since I already have 9 bottles of the stuff, no room to store more wine, and credit cards already starting to melt from various spring mailers, I felt pretty good about resisting this offer, no matter how good the price

[Derek T.]

I tasted this in the Douro last weekend and it is excellent juice. Buy all you can at that price

[Glenn E.]

What's the difference between this and their "Silval" vintage port?

[Derek T.]

What's the difference between this and their "Silval" vintage port?

The standard Noval VP (labelled Quinta do Noval) is made entirely from grapes grown on the Quinta and is their premium brand - ignoring Nacional which is made from specific vineyards within the Quinta.

Noval Silval (labeled without the use of the word Quinta) is, I believe, made from grapes from the Quinta and grapes bought in from other sources. It is a lighter style of VP that is intended for early drinking rather than long term ageing.

Derek

[Glenn E.]

Interesting... so Quinta do Noval has come full circle and is now (sort of) a shipper in their own right?

I asked because the Silval showed up on Wine-Searcher when I was comparison shopping the JJ Buckley price, and naturally it was cheaper. Now I know why!

[Derek T.]

Interesting... so Quinta do Noval has come full circle and is now (sort of) a shipper in their own right?

Glenn,

I would be interested to know what you mean by this? As far as I am aware Noval have always qualified as "a shipper" in that the produce, bottle and export their own wines.

If what you are referring to is the fact that they buy in grapes or juice to blend into their VP then they are no different from almost every other large producer/shipper in the Douro.

Derek

[Glenn E.]

Interesting... so Quinta do Noval has come full circle and is now (sort of) a shipper in their own right?

I would be interested to know what you mean by this? As far as I am aware Noval have always qualified as "a shipper" in that the produce, bottle and export their own wines.

If what you are referring to is the fact that they buy in grapes or juice to blend into their VP then they are no different from almost every other large producer/shipper in the Douro.

I probably just don't know enough about the history of Noval. I was under the impression that they were primarily a single Quinta producer, which I assumed meant that all of the grapes used were grown at a single quinta, so what I meant by the above is that they've now started buying grapes to make other Ports like the major shippers have always done.

Which leads to a question... do they have to comply with the same rules about ownership as a big shipper in VNdG? (Meaning the limit on the amount of grapes you're allowed to use from your own property... 10% I think?)

[Derek T.]

Glenn,

I am not aware of the 10% rule that you have referred to but Shippers do not have to own any properties. Quarles Harris and Vasconcellos are two current examples of shippers who only use other peoples grapes/wines to produce their own.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the boundaries of a Quinta change over time as individual vineyards are acquired or disposed of between neighbours. An example of that is Quinta dos Malvedos, the primary Quinta owned by Graham's. Until recently, Graham's would produce a VP labelled Malvedos in undeclared years. This was made from grapes from the Quinta and a number of immediately adjacent properties owned by other growers. Because of this the wine could not have the status of an SQVP as it did not come from just one Quinta. Graham's have now purchased all of the neighbouring properties and have now changed the boundary of Quinta dos Malvedos to include these newly acquired vineyards. The result is that Malvedos of today is made from grapes from the same vineyards it always has been but can now legitimately be called Quinta dos Malvedos, which is what is on the label of their 1998 VP.

The Noval property is made up of a number of smaller Quintas. One of these being Quinta do Marco, which ADV can explain more about than I can. Another part of Noval is a vineyards formerly owned by the neighbouring property Quinta do Silval. The actual Quinta belongs to someone else but at some time in the past seems to have been split into two or more parts and at least one of these is now within the bounday of Quinta do Noval. That is where the brand name Silval comes from, even though the wine is made from grapes from Noval and other Quintas. The use of the name has been the subject of some debate here, on other BBs and between the owners of the Quintas.

If you look at the Noval website (http://www.quintadonoval.pt) you will find pictures and descriptions of all of the wines they currently produce. Those branded Quinta do Noval.... are produced from grapes grown entirely within the confines of the Quinta whereas those branded simply Noval.... will also contain juice from grapes that have been bought from other sources.

Derek

[Glenn E.]

Derek,

My understanding is that shippers are not allowed to use MORE than 10% grapes from properties that they own. They're allowed to use less (even 0%) if they want to.

At any rate, it sounds like Noval is a complicated Quinta no matter what the rules are!

[Derek T.]

Derek,

My understanding is that shippers are not allowed to use MORE than 10% grapes from properties that they own. They're allowed to use less (even 0%) if they want to.

I can't see how that can be true. Take Quinta do Vesuvio as an example. They only produce and ship a VP and sell the remainder of their grapes/juice to other members of the Symington group. Because their single product VP is an SQVP 100% of the grapes used to produce all of the port marketed under their own brand must come from their own property.

Has anyone else heard of this rule?

At any rate, it sounds like Noval is a complicated Quinta no matter what the rules are!

Agreed, but most Quintas seem to have an equally complicated history. Learning these stories is one of the most facinating aspects of visiting the Douro and speaking to the people who own them.

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

At any rate, it sounds like Noval is a complicated Quinta no matter what the rules are!

Agreed, but most Quintas seem to have an equally complicated history. Learning these stories is one of the most facinating aspects of visiting the Douro and speaking to the people who own them.

Derek

Derek is 100% right...this is why I love going on the trips to Portual. You learn so much back-story about the history of the Quintas and the Douro region it makes your head spin, without the green split pea soup flying out your mouth Stuff you will never read about in any books. So much in fact, that you will actually forget more than you remember. Of course all the Port helps in that

[Glenn E.]

Has anyone else heard of this rule?

I think I have found the reference that lodged (incorrectly) in my memory. In "Rich, Rare, & Red" Ben Howkins writes when talking about Croft's relationship with several families in the Ribalonga Valley:

Croft can always rely on grapes from this region and it is pockets of vineyards such as this that, over the years, have helped formulate the basis of a "house style"; as no shipper owns more vineyards than can supply more than 5 per cent of his needs in terms of wine, each year he must buy in 95 per cent plus of the total amount of wine that he wants to make. A shipper's house style is most evident in vintage ports, so, when Croft delcares a vintage, almost certainly some of the wine in it will have come from the Ribalonga Valley.

I undoubtably mis-read the second part of that first phrase to say that shipers must buy 95 per cent of their grapes from outside sources as a requirement, when in fact what it's saying is only that they do so simply because they don't own enough supply. It's not a regulation, it was simply a side effect of the status quo at the time of the writing.

My brain holds lots of interesting little bits of information... sadly, the indexing of that information leaves a lot to be desired.