I have 5 bottles...where to go from here?

[Tim Swaback]

At the moment this is what I have:

1x Grahams Six Grapes
1x Sandeman 20 Year Tawney
1x Taylor Fladgate 2003 LBV
2x Noval 2003 LBV

I have never had a vintage port before but from having many other ports, and my first Noval 2003 LBV a few days ago I want to start up a collection. I am young (26) so I have the time and patience to let things sit. My problem is I don't know where I should start. If you had $100-150 to get things going what would you buy?

2x Grahams 2007 VP? (online retailer)
4x Quarles Harris 2007 VP? (trader joe's)
a single bottle of an older vintage?

Let me know how you think I should begin this adventure. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Tim Swaback]

Everyone has a cellar, but do you have a GUARD!

[Frederick Blais]

I'd go for 1 Graham's and 2 Quarles Harris.

Drink one QH when you receive them to see how great a Vintage Port can be while its young. Put the 2 others in your stash and wait 15-18 years for the QH and 25+ for the Graham's :)

If you want to drink mature VP, many 83 are ready now that will give great fun and very good price! Quarles Harris, Smith Woodhouse, Gould Campbell, Warre's, Dow's and Grahams(still need some time though) are still bottles you should be able to find under 100$

[John M.]

Here are a couple of things I did when I got started with my love of Port:

1. In order to increase my exposure to various ports, I started a Port Club with my friends. We each kick in some $$$, one of us buys a mixed case of port (to get that 10% to 20% discount) and we meet to taste them (as a club, we like to do 4 at a time--so we get 3 meeings per case); we take notes to have our own database.... and its a good excuse to gather with friends. (one of the offshoots of buying a case--I'm the buyer, is I would oftern will buy a few for myself at the same time and get the discount along with the case--i.e. bottles 13-15, or so--this will extend your personal "port dollars"). We have 10 members--enough to make a big enough kitty, but small enough so every one gets a decent pour of each port.

2.Get to know the owners of some better wine stores--if there is something you want, they will often attempt to get it for you. It pays to do a little homework (this website is a great source of knowledge) and some other wine websites will give you competitve pricing.

3. If your budget is tight, LBVs, Crusted Ports and the 10-20 year tawnys are a good place to start. There are also the everyday ports like Six Grapes, Fonseca Bin 27, Warres Warrior, etc. Having a personal knowledge of these I think helps with the VPs you'll drink later as you'll understand differences better.

[Tim Swaback]

Yeah that's what i want to do, but I don't think its practical.

I would have to buy the Grahams online for $60 plus $10 shipping. I found it at a store around town but they want $100. I'm not sure that buying a single bottle online is worth it. Stupid Minnesota...

[Eric Menchen]

1. I like Fred's advice. +1 on that.
2. If you're in it for the long haul, be on the look out for deals for other recent vintages. With the 2007s showing up, you might be able to buy some 2003 or 2005 for reasonable prices.
3. Keep an eye on the cat. Maybe it is just me because I'm more of a dog person, but I wouldn't trust a cat to watch my Port collection.

I appreciate John's advice, but also recognize he's in a much different position with respect to the retail market. There are lots of good wine shops in NJ and NY. I think you may be in a tougher spot in MN.

[Tim Swaback]

I'm just wondering if I should pick up a few bottles of that Quarles Harris since it is a vintage port and at such a great price, then just stash away $50 a check or something until I have a few hundred to make a big purchase online. That should offset some of the shipping costs.

I'm not sure if this is the wrong attitude, but I keep thinking of this collection like I think about my 401k. I'm young, so the earlier I start the better. And the more I put in now, the better everything will be when I'm finished. I suppose 6 months in the port world really doesn't make that much difference though.

PS, I saw a 1983 Dow vintage at a local place here, but for $93

[Glenn E.]

I suppose 6 months in the port world really doesn't make that much difference though.

That's it in a nutshell.

Something else for you to consider would be to buy some older (but still inexpensive) vintages so that you'll have something that's ready to drink in 10 years instead of 30. 1985 is a good vintage that is starting to mature, and you can find some very good Ports from that year for reasonable prices.

You will ultimately want some 2007s for your long term cellar, but those bottles won't be mature for 30 years. So backfilling with some older vintages that will mature sooner will give you something to drink while you're waiting for those 2007s to get ready.

[Tim Swaback]

Where do you guys get stuff online. I've been looking at a few.

Winex.com (had a 2003 Neipoort for $39.99 that I missed )
premiercru.net
golden-west-wine.com

Where else should I be looking?

[Glenn E.]

I do my searching on wine-searcher.com and buy from whoever is listed, and I have only ever had one problem. And that one problem ended up being resolved so dramatically in my favor that I can't really count it as a bad experience... just one that didn't work out the way I'd originally hoped.

There are many reputable wine stores on the internet... it would take pages and pages to list them all. The 3 you mention are all fine, but I've probably made purchase at 20 more (and repeat purchase at most of those). I think that in general it's pretty safe to order on the internet these days.

[Lamont Huxley]

The method I've been using recently is Googling whichever particular bottle I'm looking for and then going to the results for "Shopping". Then, change the "sort by" option at the top of the page to "Price - lowest to highest". That way you can easily find the lowest price being advertised online for that bottle. When you find something that looks like a good deal, it pays to go to that retailer's site and check out what other ports they are selling as well.

Wine-searcher.com is very useful as well, but unless you pay for the premium version, it will only give you an abbreviated list of shops selling what your searching for.

[Moses Botbol]

Morris will keep your ports safe.

Start going to all the liquor stores around and deals pop up. I've bought plenty of port that seemed like it was the wrong price. Summer time is the best for liquor stores. The deals will pop up. LBV's as you are buying are a good value. Keep looking and the other online retailers mentioned have good deals. 1983, 1985, 1994, 1995, 2003 are good vintages to look for.

In general, divide your budget in terms of when the ports will be ready. Even thirds may work, someone else may disagree. Ready now, ready in 5-10 years, ready in 10+ years. Having a cellar full of port that will take 15+ years and nothing to drink now is no fun.

[Tim Swaback]

That makes a lot of sense (splitting up the budget). I guess what I need to put together is a list of the top 5 or 6 manufacturers and what a bottle from each should cost from each year, put it all on a business card so I can start looking for deals. There are so many years/makers that its hard to know when I have spotted a deal.

[Gustavo Devesas]

Everyone has a cellar, but do you have a GUARD!

Very cool picture Tim, very nice indeed!

[Derek T.]

If you had $100-150 to get things going what would you buy?

Tim,

I would strongly suggest that for the next 12 months you spend whatever you can afford from each pay cheque (sorry, I'm British so can't say check ) on a wide variety of premium ruby, 10 & 20 year old tawny and LBV ports from as many producers as you can find. At your age and with you being new to the world of Port I don't think you should "stash away" your $50 per week/month and buy a bottle of Vintage Port that you will either have to keep for 20 years or taste before you really understand the subject.

The styles I have listed above have quite narrow price bands in most territories so you that should remove the "Oh God! That seems expensive compared to the other one" from the buying equation and will allow you to learn what you like and don't like before you splash out big bucks on something special.

Derek

[Derek T.]

PS: When your birthdays and Christmas come along you can drop in some strong hints to your friends and loved ones that you wish you could have some nice Vintage Ports

[Tim Swaback]

I'm liking this forum a lot. You guys are great and very helpful. I like the idea of splitting up my cheque ( ) and I think the way to do it is more like 40% Tawny, 40% LBV, 20% Vintage. As I progress in my understanding I'll change those proportions further to the vintage.

Just out of curiosity, are there any other members from Minnesota on this forum? I would think online group buys are the way to go in my situation. None of my friends like port (I've tried) so I think I need to reach out and see who else is out there to create a mutually beneficial bulk buying powerhouse.

I finished up my wine rack just a few minutes ago. Nothing huge or fancy but it will get me started.

Bottom Shelf - Vintage Ports (2x 2007 Quarles Harris)
2nd Shelf - LBV Ports (1x Taylor 2003, 2x Noval 2003)
3rd Shelf - Tawney's (1x Quarles Harris 10yr, 1x Sandeman 20yr)
Top Shelf - "Defenders" (1x Six Grapes)

Currently 56F (drops to 45 in winter, 60 in summer)

[Roy Hersh]

Tim,

I have enjoyed your post and the discussion it has raised. Personally, I'd suggest buying two bottles of 2007 Quinta do Noval VP and burying them deep in your cellar to drink later in life and look at these pristine babies as great bargains and bottles when mature. But to be more practical I must admit that our Tasting Note Data Base has been built with someone like you in mind. Go peruse that part of our Forum and when you find some great sounding bottles, you can then learn what the price is for them by checking winesearcher.com as Glenn mentioned. Eventually, you will augment your knowledge of what other Port enthusiasts consider to be good, as well as what is worthy to purchase when the price is right. It is a great learning tool. In addition to learning about what drinks well, you will want to gain a greater understanding of the pricing in the marketplace, especially starting with your passion at such an early age. Enjoy the curve, it may turn into a lifetime endeavor and keep that rack to look back on when you turn 40 and see where your bottles are stored by then. Plenty of us here started at a young age whether that is a recent event for some or years ago for others. I started with Port when I was 26 and am 52 now; I still own the first two bottles I ever bought. They are special to me and I will open them when my daughter is of age to enjoy them with me. 2007 Noval wouldn't be a bad way to go, but you may discover lots of other worthy bottles instead.

Thanks for a great read and please continue to post and learn along with us here at . Your questions will help others to learn too.

[Tim Swaback]

Roy,

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a bit daunting trying to jump on this boat but with help and light nudging from people like you it makes it seem possible. I thoroughly enjoyed the 2003 noval LBV that I had and so have been looking around for some noval vintage ports that are worthy.

I'm also thinking of picking up either the 83 cockburn or the 85 fonseca (Roy's top 12) in a few months so I can actually try a VP that is mature, or near mature. I'll have to keep an eye out for them. In the meantime I will be tasting some LBV's and the few tawny's that I have stashed.

A few questions:
What is a good price on the 2007 Noval VP? I saw it for $70
Any ideas where I can pick up the cockburn or fonseca at a good price? (found for $85 and $89 respectively)
Any suggestions on LBV's that will help me understand port better?

Thanks!

[Moses Botbol]

Roy,

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a bit daunting trying to jump on this boat but with help and light nudging from people like you it makes it seem possible. I thoroughly enjoyed the 2003 noval LBV that I had and so have been looking around for some noval vintage ports that are worthy.

I'm also thinking of picking up either the 83 cockburn or the 85 fonseca (Roy's top 12) in a few months so I can actually try a VP that is mature, or near mature. I'll have to keep an eye out for them. In the meantime I will be tasting some LBV's and the few tawny's that I have stashed.

A few questions:
What is a good price on the 2007 Noval VP? I saw it for $70
Any ideas where I can pick up the cockburn or fonseca at a good price? (found for $85 and $89 respectively)
Any suggestions on LBV's that will help me understand port better?

Thanks!

-Don't buy '83 Cockburn, the percentage of bottles with TCA is too great to take a risk in your situation.
-Seeing what your prices are for 2007's, the Noval is your best bet out of the three for sure. Probably the best '07 out there as of today.
-Warre, Ferreira, Portal, Noval, and Ramos Pinto are the first LBV's I think of off-hand that are worth picking up. All are unfiltered and the most similar to vintage port. "Crusted Port" from whatever brand you can find is also worth looking for.