Lance Armstrong and the FDA investigation

[Andy Velebil]

Seems things are getting very interesting today as several former teammates (George Hincapie, Frankie Andreu, Floyd Landis, and Tyler Hamilton) have now all given testimony to investigators that they saw and/or supplied Lance with EPO and other banned substances. While a couple of them have been caught cheating and weren't taken seriously, the biggest shock is that Hincapie has now admitted that he and Lance bought and used it together.

CBS News has also reported that, "Hincapie testified that he and Armstrong supplied each other with the endurance-boosting substance EPO and discussed having used another banned substance, testosterone, to prepare for races."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report- ... -took-peds

[Moses Botbol]

I am waiting for Levi to come clean. It's hard now to think of any big name pro of that era that is beyond suspicion. I don't care if everyone doped or not. It's still amazing what these guys do and I am going to watch either way. Lance is in a tough position. Will he plead the 5th if that's even possible? Landis may get his whitstle blower payout after all.

[Glenn E.]

I still maintain that the entire investigation is a witch hunt that cannot legally end with any sort of conviction.

They're trying to prove that Armstrong defrauded the government. Ironically, the only way that he's going to be seen as even possibly defrauding the government is BECAUSE of this investigation! The US Postal Service got all kinds of great publicity while he was winning those titles - titles that he can't lose at this late of a date without re-writing the rules - and the only negative association is being caused by the government itself.

[Moses Botbol]

It’s pretty certain that USPS team were doping, but I think it’ll be hard to prove they defrauded the government as the criteria for showing no fraud had been met (passing the tests) and it was not until after their contract expired did such fraud become apparent. I am hardly a lawyer, but I think the USPS got fair services and representation for their time and investment in the cycling team. I have a feeling this will fall short of any convictions, but is really going to drag Armstrong’s persona/idol down tremendously. I think he’ll stick with “No Comment” for decades to come on this subject.

As far as I am concerned, his feats are just as great. If only he won some Classics, I would admire him more. To put all your eggs in one basket and have his success is most impressive. I think Contador is a better rider though.

[Andy Velebil]

Some crazy accusations came out last night after the 60 Minutes show. They are now saying he failed an EPO test in 2001 and it was covered up and that Lance bragged about it to some teammates. There is no doubt there will be some mud slinging going on and I think some details will emerge that will surprise us.

Not to long ago I found an old link to an article written in 2005 about how Lance, Tailwind Sports, Thom Weisel, the CEO of USA Cycling, and many more are all linked together and actually work(ed) together and/or were paid by the same company. It's a really good read and for me filled in a lot of details about some things that went on here in the sport back then (if only I could find the link I'll post it).

Found it http://www.scribd.com/doc/32057485/Curi ... oping-Saga

[Steve Pollack]

Why was the USPS, in their horrid financial condition, wasting money by sponsoring a cycling team? That would be almost as irresponsible as Greece hosting the Olympics. Oh wait, that happened too?

[Moses Botbol]

Why was the USPS, in their horrid financial condition, wasting money by sponsoring a cycling team?

The USPS wanted to advertise in Europe and it sure worked well for them. Actually, it gave USPS worldwide advertising for much lower than other big names spend with much less success. Cycling sponsorship for the best teams and riders is less than a losing team in F1 and that’s not even a title sponsor. I’ve had a hunch that USPS caught wind that doping was within their team and decided to part ways after their contract expired rather than it being too expensive as they cited.

This will benefit Lance as the USPS would’ve sued the team if they knew the fraud and felt cheated for services provided. As if the gov't knew and did not care, and parted ways after the contract completed. The team was on the top of the world winning every grand tour; a sponsor’s dream. 10,000’s of fans buying USPS jerseys and hats.

[Todd Pettinger]

Armstrong may have doped in a sport where almost ALL the competitors were likely doping?!?! If this turns out to be true then I'll throw away my replica USPS yellow jersey and never watch cycling again!!! Oh wait, no I won't.

Anybody watching the Giro this year? Monte Zoncolan was so epic, to me it doesn't much matter if any competitors were doing EPO or second or third gen EPO or any other other PEDs, the training and efforts put into an epic stage like that, still an incredible human feat. I'll still admire the hell out of anyone who can perform like that, drugs or no. A buddy of mine cycled one of the more epic mountain ascents of the Tour de France, Alpe d'Huez... It took him almost two hours... And he may have been using some substances that would have gotten him kicked out of pro cycling... And he didn't do the 100 to 130 miles they typically put in a stage BEFORE the Alpe... To see some of those pros ascend the mountain in under an hour is still pretty freakin incredible!

My only disappointment re: Armstrong would be his repeated and steadfast denials that he took any PEDs ever (that is IF the allegations are true) - but then again, what would you really expect from someone still in the game. Look at baseball and some of the player's who refused to admit use of PEDs even though MLB had no official rules or policies regarding the use of PEDs... They still would not easily admit it. For a sport that did actively ban PEDs, and to have someone who was still active in it, I can easily see why Armstrong (or anyone else for that matter, even the ones caught with positives, the Hamiltons, the Landises, the Bassos, the Millars, the Vinokourovs, etc.) wouldn't easily admit to it and the consequences of fines, loss of sponsorship, and the pure shame of it.

[Andy Velebil]

There is no doubt USPS got what they wanted for their sponsorship, publicity in Europe where they were actively looking to expand their market presence. So in that respect, as Moses said, they got their monies worth sponsoring Lance's team. What is amazing is so far George H hasn't denied any of the reports that he admited to taking PED with Lance. All his publicist has stated was he didn't talk to 60 minutes. So reading between the lines tells me there is probably some truth there.

The UCI today only stated they have never "sent" Lance a letter stating he tested postive on a test. It was an odd choice of words they used in their press release. Why not say they have never been notified by a lab that Lance has tested positive for a PED or something to that effect. The UCI also loves to threaten and take legal action against those that they feel are smearing thier image with false accusations. Yet the one thing they have never gone after, then or now, is the allegations that they covered up a positive test for Lance. It seems trivial, and pure speculation on my part, but when you look at their long history of legal action for everything else you'd think clearing their name for such a serious allegation would be a priority. It does make me wonder...

[Todd Pettinger]

I agree that USPS got a good deal for their money. I still refer to the "glory days" of American cycling as the Postal days or USPS glory days... And I'm not even American! Some of the most glorified clips of Lance still feature him in the dark blue USPS jerseys (anyone remember "The Look"?!?!). Amazing memories, great times. All lived out in US Postal's navy.

To your last message Andy, i suspect ALL cycling pros from the 90's and early 2000's, but in my mind, even if they were all guilty of some form of doping, transfusion, blood banking, recovery-speeding (all of which are technically CHEATing) there were still some amazing athletes and accomplishments. I am too much of a realist to hold Lance to his "word" that he never doped, not once, thank you sir! I am not an idealist who believes that if all of the peloton were doping that al their accomplishments should just be thrown out either. Would I love to see a sport that I love be absolutely, guaranteed clean? Hell yeah! But i just have too many suspicions and too many keep getting caught for this or that for me to ever believe I will ever be fully clean.

[Moses Botbol]

I am not an idealist who believes that if all of the peloton were doping that al their accomplishments should just be thrown out either.

Should Landis have his Tour win back then?

Contador's Giro performance this year so far has been history in the making.

I have heard there is an underworld "mafia" element to cycling, especially in Italy. When Pantani got pulled right before winning the Giro sure seemed like some bookmakers had their hand in it. There are many dubious players behind the scenes and pro bike racing has been going on for 100+ years

[Todd Pettinger]

Difficult question to answer Moses... I'm going to have to think long and hard about that because realistically, you've exposed the duality of my argument: the entertainment I enjoy from seeing amazing performance on the bike versus whether or not it is fair that if some were doping, all should be excused for doing the same even if they did not get caught.

I will say this: my belief today is that the dude with the best doctor wins!

We can agree though: Contador is owning the Giro. A performance for the ages (and I'll admit to not being the biggest fan of Contador.). He is unequalled in the mountains.

[Glenn E.]

I am not an idealist who believes that if all of the peloton were doping that al their accomplishments should just be thrown out either.

Should Landis have his Tour win back then?

No. Landis got caught. That's the risk you run if you're doping.

If you don't get caught then you're fine. Yes, that means I'm tacitly encouraging cheating, but really what I'm doing is recognizing that cheating is going to happen no matter how difficult you try to make it, so there needs to be a statute of limitations.

Bonds got caught. No HOF for him. (I don't buy his argument that he thought it was flaxseed oil. Sorry, Barry, we aren't as stupid as you want us to believe you were.) MacGuire and Sosa did not get caught. I'll evaluate their HOF prospects at the appropriate time, but at the moment I'm not sure either of 'em would qualify in my eyes even if they'd been 100% clean.

If Armstrong cheated, he never got caught. So for me he's still the greatest TdF rider of all time. (Qualification required - The Cannibal is the greatest rider of all time.) Contador may some day eclipse Armstrong... provided he doesn't get caught. Yes, that means I believe he's probably doping. I think most of them are, especially the best ones. Like Todd, to some extent I don't care because what they're doing is still incredible.

[Marc J.]

We can agree though: Contador is owning the Giro. A performance for the ages (and I'll admit to not being the biggest fan of Contador.). He is unequalled in the mountains.

I agree that Contador is dominating the field, although I would have like to have seen Contador vs. Basso in the mountains. Both are outstanding climbers and I think that Basso could have given him a good fight...

[Todd Pettinger]

Hmmm, Glenn, you may have just nailed exactly what I couldn't articulate myself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT them to cheat, but I am realistic enough to know that the likelihood of a clean field is slim to none...