Port and diabetes

[Jay Hack]

Well, it looks like my port drinking days are just about over. Doctor diagnosed me in December with type 2 diabetes and although dry red wine is OK, probably even good for me, dessert wines are a big no-no except in extremely limited quantities - maybe a half ounce after no carbs for a day. Just curious whether anyone else out there in Port-land has the same problem and might have a good way to deal with it. Overdosing on an insulin injection and then drinking the wine is not an acceptable option. I still plan to drink the two bottles of Nacional some day, but maybe after I run a marathon (ha!) and get my blood glucose level down to the dangerously low range.

[John M.]

That's terrible. My condolences.

Can you treat the wines like at a tasting and spit them out? If so, at least you could enjoy those Nacionals.

Here's to your health; be well.

[Jeff G.]

Well, it looks like my port drinking days are just about over. Doctor diagnosed me in December with type 2 diabetes and although dry red wine is OK, probably even good for me, dessert wines are a big no-no except in extremely limited quantities - maybe a half ounce after no carbs for a day. Just curious whether anyone else out there in Port-land has the same problem and might have a good way to deal with it. Overdosing on an insulin injection and then drinking the wine is not an acceptable option. I still plan to drink the two bottles of Nacional some day, but maybe after I run a marathon (ha!) and get my blood glucose level down to the dangerously low range.

erm what about our March offline!!!!

[Eric Menchen]

Arrgh and sorry to hear that. I would ask the doctor about spitting. Not real fun, but might be better than nothing. I know you absorb some alcohol in the mouth, but I don't know how much sugar.

[Andy Velebil]

Sorry to hear that, but I know of others that are diabetic, take insulin daily, and still drink Port regularly. Hopefully one or more of them will chime in and give you some real world advice on it. Otherwise, I've never been a fan of doctors who give the knee jerk reaction of "you can't ever do that again." I'd get a second opinion regarding drinking Port and still managing your insulin levels.

[Jay Hack]

Sorry to hear that, but I know of others that are diabetic, take insulin daily, and still drink Port regularly. Hopefully one or more of them will chime in and give you some real world advice on it. Otherwise, I've never been a fan of doctors who give the knee jerk reaction of "you can't ever do that again." I'd get a second opinion regarding drinking Port and still managing your insulin levels.

My doctor didn't say that I could never drink it again. However, taking insulin is a bad thing and controling it by diet and exercise is a far far better choice. In fact, my doctor said that falling off the wagon every once in a while is OK, so long as every once in a while is measured in months, not weeks.

[Peter W. Meek]

You don't say how extreme your diabetes is. Mine (also type 2) is fairly mild at the moment. My doctor is not prescribing any medication for it for the time being. He is advising exercise and diet modification, and tri-monthly office visits and lab work to monitor the situation. I have cut back on sweets (my main sugar has always been Coca-Cola) by about 50-60%, and have dropped from about 270# to 250# which he describes as encouraging. I still drink several glasses of port 2 or 3 evenings a week and table wines almost every evening. (The alcohol goes to sugar very quickly.)

You also do not say what age you are. I'm 68, so if I can keep it from going critical for a decade or two, I can cure it by dying of something else. (This is a reasonable method of managing certain diseases for those of us who are getting up there, although you will rarely hear a doctor advise it.)

My main worry about diabetes (as a voracious reader) is loss of vision. I could give up port (and other sugars and alcohols) a lot easier than giving up reading.

One thing the dietician told me was that it is the sugar changes (from high to low and back again) that make the diabetes worse. I try to spread my sugar out evenly throughout the day. I have cut my Coca-cola consumption by drinking smaller bottles, rather than only by drinking fewer bottles.

One downside to having been pre-diabetic for a very long time is diabetic neuropathy. My feet hurt, 24/7, and the pain level is about the same as during first few days after a recent kidney surgery. Unlike the surgery, pain-killers have no effect, and none of the medications normally used for neuropathy have worked for me (or they caused suicidal inclinations, as a side effect), so I just have to put up with it. I've stood it for the past ten years or more; I expect I can deal with a few more decades.

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Type I for me, so insulin mandatory. But type I and type II, despite the similarity of name, are quite different conditions.

A type II academic of my acquaintance, not long after diagnosis, switched from port to whisky.

[Andy Velebil]

My doctor didn't say that I could never drink it again. However, taking insulin is a bad thing and controling it by diet and exercise is a far far better choice. In fact, my doctor said that falling off the wagon every once in a while is OK, so long as every once in a while is measured in months, not weeks.

In that case, we need to get you a stationary bike to ride during an offline, that way you can drink and exercise at the same time

[Jay Hack]

My doctor didn't say that I could never drink it again. However, taking insulin is a bad thing and controling it by diet and exercise is a far far better choice. In fact, my doctor said that falling off the wagon every once in a while is OK, so long as every once in a while is measured in months, not weeks.

In that case, we need to get you a stationary bike to ride during an offline, that way you can drink and exercise at the same time

I was considering that alternative. There is a diabetes forum similar to this one and one of the posters says that 50-60 jumping jacks is enough to keep her blood sugar in line. I'm thinking that I will do some calculations, go to the gym for an hour, then go to a Port offline, and go jumping jacks every half hour or so. The crazy part is that the answer by the professionals to every questions is "I don't know, each person is different" so your body just becomes a giant science experiment.

The numbers I have reflect that Port is 80 to 100 gms/litre. That means that I could drink eight separate one ounce pours during a dinner offline and if I had no other carbs for the entire meal, it would be OK. I will have to check with my doctor about that.

Does anyone have a source for accurate figures on gms/litre of sugar in port.

AND by the way - alcohol does not metabolize into sugar. It metabolizes into fat. So the alcohol component is not a bad thing, and in fact red wine tends to decrease blood sugar levels.

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

red wine tends to decrease blood sugar levels.

Alcohol slows liver function, with a delay. The afternoon after a heavy evening session is particularly prone to low sugar.

[Jay Hack]

red wine tends to decrease blood sugar levels.

Alcohol slows liver function, with a delay. The afternoon after a heavy evening session is particularly prone to low sugar.

That is common understanding but my endocrinologist claims that it is not correct. She says that the positive aspects of red wine including resveritrol and anti-oxidants from the skins have a positive effect on insulin efficiency and production in Type II diabetics. I am going to investiogate further.

[Roy Hersh]

Jay, please do. I read your initial thread on this on WB and felt bad, knowing your penchant for Port. Others there talked about Gout as well. Both are terrible and Port certainly doesn't help either.

I was also diagnosed as a pre-diabetic (type 2) circa 2008. I dropped about 25 pounds and have kept most of it off, although I would like to take off another 10-15# over the next year. I test my blood sugar 3-5x per week; fasting and otherwise and have A1C tests run quarterly. I don't do insulin at this point, but do take Metformin daily to counter things from getting worse. My A1C's have improved each of the past three years and last check was 5.9. If I drop another ten pounds, I think I'd be out of the danger zone altogether. Fasting sugars are typically in line. Worst readings are when I do pasta meals or right after Port consumption.

Lately, as my daughter has decided her calling in life is to become a pastry chef, her experimentation has presented challenges. I make sure her cupcakes and other desserts are out of the house or in the garbage after 24 hours. If I am going to lose mobility someday, it will be from Port consumption and not her cakes, cupcakes and pastries! Maybe she is trying to figure out a way to get her hands on my Ports a few years earlier.

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Broadly, eat stuff you like. If you don’t like it — or don’t like it enough to justify its health nastiness — don’t eat it.

[Jay Hack]

Jay, please do. I read your initial thread on this on WB and felt bad, knowing your penchant for Port. Others there talked about Gout as well. Both are terrible and Port certainly doesn't help either.

I was also diagnosed as a pre-diabetic (type 2) circa 2008. I dropped about 25 pounds and have kept most of it off, although I would like to take off another 10-15# over the next year. I test my blood sugar 3-5x per week; fasting and otherwise and have A1C tests run quarterly. I don't do insulin at this point, but do take Metformin daily to counter things from getting worse. My A1C's have improved each of the past three years and last check was 5.9. If I drop another ten pounds, I think I'd be out of the danger zone altogether. Fasting sugars are typically in line. Worst readings are when I do pasta meals or right after Port consumption.

Lately, as my daughter has decided her calling in life is to become a pastry chef, her experimentation has presented challenges. I make sure her cupcakes and other desserts are out of the house or in the garbage after 24 hours. If I am going to lose mobility someday, it will be from Port consumption and not her cakes, cupcakes and pastries! Maybe she is trying to figure out a way to get her hands on my Ports a few years earlier.

The fact that you have an A1C of 5.9 with all the Port you must drink is the most encouraging thing I have heard in the past 2 months. When I was diagnosed in December, I blew the top off the meter with a 13.8. I will test it again in about a month. Ifr I can get it below 6 without insulin, then maybe a little bit of Port will be OK.

[Glenn E.]

If I can get it below 6 without insulin, then maybe a little bit of Port will be OK.

If Roy is any indication, that's like a French chef saying that he uses "a little bit of butter" in his cooking.

[Roy Hersh]

Jay, the highest I ever had on an A1C was 7.2 (when initially diagnosed with "PRE") in 2008 and with some weight loss and Metformin my blood sugar has steadily dropped -- but slowly -- since then. I was told it is possible to go from having pre-diabetes back to non-diabetes, with exercise and dietary work. I don't think I have but it would require a lot more weight loss for that to happen.

Nonetheless, when you spend years of your life dedicated to a high RS beverage like Port and it becomes a "career" and not just a hobby, the odds of longevity are naturally going to be reduced. Of course, some people would find it much easier to just give up drinking Port altogether and live a longer, healthier life. At least at this point, for me ... that's not an option. I may HAVE TO rethink that "philosophy" some day though.

A quick aside:
My father worked out at the gym 4-6 days a week, for over a half century. He was lean and muscular his entire adult life from my very earliest memories of him. He remained a gym rat even seven years into his bout with Alzheimers. After his workout with weights, he would ride an exercise bike, do the treadmill or use the elliptical machine for 45 minutes and after that he loved to do the aerobics classes with young women, which helped to keep him young. And even at the end, he always kept up with them! He had to stop going to the gym at eighty, not because of his lack of desire, as this was one of his true loves. The disease took him less than three years later. He ate smart and kept his body in amazing shape and always lectured me about this. At the end, it mattered not how physically fit he had been, nor how healthy his nutrition regimen was.

As a wise man once said, "choose your poison!" Or to quote Jim Morrison: "No one here gets out alive."

Listen to your doctor and thrive!

[Glenn E.]

At the end, it mattered not how physically fit he had been, nor how healthy his nutrition regimen was.

My Dad was a middle distance runner for as long as I can remember. He used to run 6 miles at lunch every day, all year 'round. (Including all winter long in NE Nebraska - the college would plow the track so that he could run. One small perk of being the college President.) He was fast, too - so fast that the college track team didn't like to practice while he was on the track. They didn't like to get shown up by the Old Man. It was a major milestone for me after I started running in my 40s the very first time I could complete a 5k as fast as he used to run a 10k - around 36 minutes. He wasn't an Olympian, but he might as well have been to me.

My memories of him running go back as far as I can remember. He continued to run, though more slowly over time, until he reached his 70s.

Then, suddenly and unexpectedly, he developed idiopathic ventricular tachycardia. Idiopathic meaning "we have no idea why this happens." After all those decades of running and being amazingly healthy his electrical system just freaked out for no reason. So now he wears a pacemaker/internal defibrillator and he's not allowed to run any more.

So yeah, being fit and eating right is good, but it's not a magic bullet. Enjoy life.

[Andy Velebil]

So yeah, being fit and eating right is good, but it's not a magic bullet. Enjoy life.

I exercise cause I'm kinda addicted to it after 25+ years of racing bicycles. Plus it allows me do my other favorite things and not turn into the Pilsbury Dough Boy...eating and drinking Port and wine. A running joke at work with some of my co-workers is that even though I'm in far greater shape than they are I'll probably die first since I'm using up more heartbeats per day than they are. Oh well, if I do go first, at least I'll go out happy and I hope the medics will have to pry my cold dead fingers off the handlebars of my bike* when it finally happens.

*prying them off a nice bottle of Port in my hand would also be a good way to go as well

[Glenn E.]

Plus it allows me do my other favorite things and not turn into the Pilsbury Dough Boy...eating and drinking Port and wine.

Yeah, that's why I run. 3-4 times a week will let me eat pretty much whatever I want to eat and still keep me in my target weight range.

My problem is that I greatly prefer to run outside (vs on a treadmill) and the cold & rainy weather here from November through April makes that dreary. I've gained ~10 lbs since I started working again in December because I've only been able to run 1-2 times a week.