Cool Facebook Response From Bart Broadbent

[Barry Sunderland]

I noticed a Facebook article about Broadbent selling their last 250 bottles of their Old Terrantez bottling to a restauranteur. The article referred to this wine as 80 years old, which surprised me as I thought it more to be 45-50 years old. I wrote Mr. Broadbent about this difference and he elegantly responded...


Here is Mr. Broadbent's response:

I like that you have eagle eyes and rightly ask this very good question!

It has been 17 years since we first started selling it, so naturally, it is 17 years older than what we first said it was. We should have been increasing our age declaration every year but somehow didn't, so jumping to 80 years from 50 might look peculiar.

However, we have also subsequently done more research on it. The most accurate and trusted palate in America on Madeira is that of Darrel Corti from Corti Brothers in Sacramento. I had him taste the wine and he has a photographic memory. He is pretty convinced it is the 1934 vintage, certainly from the 1930s anyway.

Anyway, the story is this: I sent my parents to the island in early 1996 to taste wines from all the Madeira wine producers, the goal was for them to select wines for us to purchase and bottle under our own brand name and, also, to find a winemaker willing to make blends to our own specifications. At the time, my father was updating his book, so all the producers opened their doors to him.

My father chose Justino's because they felt it had the best quality stocks for our blending purposes.

Whilst there, with the help of Justino's, they sourced some good old wines. One was this mystery Terrantez.

We know that the wine existed in the attic of a farm when the farm was purchased in the 1960s. The previous owner had no recollection of when it was made, we only know that his vines were Terrantez.

So, our original statements about the wine would have been based on the fact that the wine was already a vintage [ie more than 20 years old] back in the 1960s when the property was purchased. That made it, conservatively, 50 years old when my parents were there in 1996. Add 17 years since then and you reach almost 70 years of age, still a conservative estimate.

Given that Darrel Corti has since dated it to the 1930s, I feel very comfortable with the claim made that it is 80 years old.

I hope this clears up any confusion? It was not me who stated that it was 80 years old but that statement was written by someone who figured it out from the story.

[Carl D]

A shout-out for Darrel Corti. w00t!

[Steve Pollack]

Very cool, Barry. I believe I have a couple bottles, but have not yet tried it.

[Eric Menchen]

So it is probably 80 years old, but not definitively so. I respect Darrel Corti, but even the most discerning palates have been wrong before, and the fact remains we don't have documented proof. Just MHO.

[Roy Hersh]

I drink a decent amount of Madeira and certainly have over the years. I have only had Port with Darrell and never Madeira. He is a brilliant guy, no doubt about that. However, having met folks who drink Madeira with greater frequency and people who drink nothing except Madeira, I still have never found anyone who can judge the age of Madeira with any precision. Not that I am saying Broadbent is wrong, or Darrell, but to say with any certainty that this is from 1934 is a guess at best, in my opinion. Good for an "estimate" though.

[John Vachon]

In the late 1990's I moved from 10 & 15 yr old Madeiras to this wine a big step up-I drank a couple of cases

before going down the rabbit hole of Vintage Madeira.

[Peter Reutter]

With all the variable factors given that go into the development of an old Madeira wine, like time of fermentation, intensity of clarification, time of storing in cask up in the attic, later at a different place and so on and so on... ?

I remember a talk with Ricardo where he explained the influence of the different storing houses of the Barbeito Company on the wines in cask. They regularly move casks between the different places to deliberatly accelerate or slow down maturation and concentration. Since nobody knows about the storing conditions of the wine before it was discovered, I really wonder how even the most distinguished palate would be able to accomplish this...

An estimated decade or a time-span like "first half of the 20th century" OK, but 1934? I do have my doubts about pinpointing a wine to an exact vintage date.

Peter

[Andy Velebil]

An estimated decade or a time-span like "first half of the 20th century" OK, but 1934? I do have my doubts about pinpointing a wine to an exact vintage date.

Peter

+1

With any wine, Port, or Madeira someone may be able to reasonably accurately guess an age range but to put a specific date on it with no informaton is a bit of a stretch. Especially given the owner it was bought from didn't even know what is was. As it was in the attic when he bought the farm. There's even a guess as to the grape varietal. The later probably being a bit easier to decern. Though the counter would be how many serious Madeira lovers here I've read have had a hard time guessing blind what varietal some Madeira's are.

[Roy Hersh]

There is a huge difference in Port when it comes to guessing age (Vintage Port) not wood aged, vs. Madeira. There are many things one can somewhat rely on for positioning a guess, not the least of which is color. But Madeira, the factors like color are meaningless, except maybe on the edge. Nonetheless, if Darrell had been guessing 1934 on a Port rather than a Madeira, I'd not even be questioning that. But color is just mentioned as ONE example of characteristics that make guessing Vintage Port much easier than Madeira. Although, to be fair, Colheita Port and Madeira are far more similar due to the wood aging. But I digress.

[Andy Velebil]

There is a huge difference in Port when it comes to guessing age (Vintage Port) not wood aged, vs. Madeira. There are many things one can somewhat rely on for positioning a guess, not the least of which is color. But Madeira, the factors like color are meaningless, except maybe on the edge. Nonetheless, if Darrell had been guessing 1934 on a Port rather than a Madeira, I'd not even be questioning that. But color is just mentioned as ONE example of characteristics that make guessing Vintage Port much easier than Madeira. Although, to be fair, Colheita Port and Madeira are far more similar due to the wood aging. But I digress.

So, what I said

But even with Vintage Port it can be very difficult. I've seen producers not come close to guessing the vintage from their own companies products. Let alone other Port lovers, ones who drink a ton of Port, including you and me, who have been far off the mark when guessing the age. There are so many factors which could come into play, especially as a wine gets older, which could effect the age perception. So even if he said it was a 1934 VP, I'd question that as well. Now if he said it was probably from around the 1930's or so, that I'd probably buy.

[Andy Velebil]

And we haven't even got into discussing if this really is 100% Terrantez or a blend with something else.

[Eric Ifune]

So many variables in aging Madeira make it mindboggling that anyone can do this consistently. Years in cask, years in demijohn, years in bottle. In past eras, some famous collectors would keep their demijohns uncorked! Which lodge is the wine held and where is important too. Warmer more exposed sites are different than cooler, damper areas, ect. Nothing really uniform.

[Roy Hersh]

Andy, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just slightly different views on perception. But my response was based on other's opinions.

Eric, I completely agree, Madeira has just too many variables. We've both seen some of the greatest Madeira palates in the world and I don't think a single one of them would say they could blind guess with any sense of accuracy. We haven't even begun to mention things like Soleras.

[Andy Velebil]

We haven't even begun to mention things like Soleras.

Now you're really trying to

[Justin A]

Gonna be trying this wine for the first time next week. Mixed reviews. Will post back with my findings.

[Moses Botbol]

But even with Vintage Port it can be very difficult. I've seen producers not come close to guessing the vintage from their own companies products. Let alone other Port lovers, ones who drink a ton of Port, including you and me, who have been far off the mark when guessing the age. There are so many factors which could come into play, especially as a wine gets older, which could effect the age perception. So even if he said it was a 1934 VP, I'd question that as well. Now if he said it was probably from around the 1930's or so, that I'd probably buy.

I'm with you and Roy on this one.

I respect the Broadbent's and think their portfolio is one of my favorites. I don't doubt his assertion on age, but basing it on a blind tasting is circumstantial at best.