Advice for a Port novice

[Adam LeCroy]

Good morning, afternoon, evening, and night to all the people across the planet.

I'm a US citizen and have only had good port once at a bed and breakfast, then a few cheap tawny's down the road. I have enjoyed them all (obviously the former more than the latter).

I'm sure you've seen this request/idea before, but my wife and I were married in 2011 and wanted to buy 12-15 (probably 13) bottles of port to drink on every 5th anniversary. We both enjoy port, and it seems to hold its age better than the rest/has less chance to lose its character (according to research). We're not limited by budget restraints, and are expecting it to be in the thousands of dollars price range.

I've seen that the 2011 Vintage is proposed to be released in summer 2013. Now for the questions:

1. I know nothing about "brand names" of vintage port. What are some vineyards/named pressings that will have a greater than 50% chance of retaining their character more than 30 years?
2. Is there some sort of waiting list we need to get on with a producer with such a large order?
3. What's the risk of bottle shock?
4. What's the best way to order? Through a local wine store, the internet, or is there a better method I don't know about?

All PMs, thoughts, concerns, and considerations welcome! I will be checking actively from now until summer '13 for responses.

[Glenn E.]

Hi Adam, welcome to FTLOP!



You picked a good year to get married. All signs point to a general declaration, so that means you will have lots of options as you select your Vintage Port. I expect that all of the major brands will declare, so Graham, Dow, Warre, Cockburn, Vesuvio, Taylor, Fonseca, Croft, Quinta do Noval, Kopke, Sandeman, Smith Woodhouse, Gould Campbell, and many others should all be available. All of those brands should easily last 30 years. Many of them will last 50 or more, and some of those might not even be fully mature at 30 years old.

Declarations should start happening later this month and could continue until May or so. (Technically it could continue until roughly March of next year, but that rarely happens these days.)

It generally takes a while before the newly released Vintage Ports make it to the US, so don't expect to see much in stores until fall. If you have a store that you use frequently, you could probably ask them which producers they have access to and then order through them. A case of Port shouldn't be difficult to obtain in that manner because the store will be able to order it for you from the distributor. Price on release for most of the labels I mentioned above will probably be in the $75 - $100 range per bottle. Release prices for the 2007s, which was the last general declaration, were in the $65 - $90 range as I recall. So a case will run about $1000 + taxes as you expect. For new releases, ordering over the internet is a perfectly viable option and might save you a few bucks per bottle. You don't have to worry about how the wine has been stored in their warehouse because it hasn't been stored there at all.

There's very little risk of bottle shock with Port, especially for bottles that you're going to age in your cellar. Bottle shock for Port typically refers to taking a bottle on a trip and then opening it shortly after arrival - any travel with a bottle of wine, but especially in a suitcase on an airplane, can cause a short-term bottle shock. But if you give it a couple of weeks it will settle right back down to normal and there's no permanent harm done to the Port.

Hope that helps!

[Adam LeCroy]

I had seen that 2011 would be a good Port year, which was good news for me because a colleage at my old office told me how terrible the Bordeaux wines from 2011 would be relative to 2010.

So let's play this game: "if you were going to be racking these bottles for enjoyment 50 years (Lord willing) which of the recommended producers would you use and why?"

Hypothetical example: "Out of the last 30 good vintage years I've preferred (Insert producer here: Taylor, Graham, etc) the majority of the time because I like it's (insert characteristic here: spiciness, date notes, smoothness, etc)"

Feel free to talk to me like I'm an idiot in the world of Port because I am, but I'm hoping that the VP we choose will serve as a great allegory for our marriage and appreciation of Port. Big learning curve at the beginning, mellowing to sweet, subtly incredible happiness at the end of the case.

[John M.]

Taylor, Graham and Fonseca are usually in top form but there are many fine producers--why not join FTLOP and get the benefit of Roy's tasting of the gamut? If you poke around you'll find his tasting notes on all the vintage years and get a sense of what to expect from him--then when the 2011s hit the market, you'll know what you want.

Oh, and one every 5 years is not enough. Might I suggest getting 5/6 cases--enjoy one every year for 60-72 years...and maybe a bottle of Noval Nacional for the 50th!

Great VP Ports are often awkward from 4-5 years to 20 years of age (at least the best ones) so getting other ones that are more approachable in that awkward time frame would be a good strategy; better Port minds here can advise you on that. Also, by buying several different brands you'll ensure getting a great one that can last the distance.

[Adam LeCroy]

Taylor, Graham and Fonseca are usually in top form but there are many fine producers--why not join FTLOP and get the benefit of Roy's tasting of the gamut? If you poke around you'll find his tasting notes on all the vintage years and get a sense of what to expect from him--then when the 2011s hit the market, you'll know what you want.

Oh, and one every 5 years is not enough. Might I suggest getting 5/6 cases--enjoy one every year for 60-72 years...and maybe a bottle of Noval Nacional for the 50th!

Great VP Ports are often awkward from 4-5 years to 20 years of age (at least the best ones) so getting other ones that are more approachable in that awkward time frame would be a good strategy; better Port minds here can advise you on that. Also, by buying several different brands you'll ensure getting a great one that can last the distance.

How much is membership? Will he be tasting all of 2011's releases as they are declared this year?

Also, while I would enjoy your method more from a flavor standpoint, we have to have the Port to mature as we do, so it's more sentimental. We will suffer the brashness of our youth with the wine we choose to be our time travelling companion.

Must be the same bottle, just a little older each time. It's silly and wasteful, we know, but "ainsi est l'amour".

[Eric Ifune]

Hello and welcome!
I'd expect Roy to taste and post his notes at some point. I'd personally wait for the notes before buying. Fortunately, even Vintage Port usually doesn't sell out quickly, so there'll be no harm in waiting.

[Glenn E.]

So let's play this game: "if you were going to be racking these bottles for enjoyment 50 years (Lord willing) which of the recommended producers would you use and why?"

To me there are three big names to watch for in every general declaration: Graham, Fonseca, and Taylor. Over the years Fonseca and Taylor have had higher highs, but they have also had lower lows. Graham is, to me, the most consistently excellent producer of Vintage Port. There is a fourth producer, though, that has only recently (in Port terms) started bottling Vintage Port, and that is Vesuvio. Vesuvio's first VP was 1989 (I think) and they've been consistently excellent ever since. The problem is that their oldest Ports aren't old yet, at least not in Port years, so it is difficult to say whether or not they're as good as they seem to be.

Still... if I were paying my own money and buying to drink over the next 50 years, I'd go with Graham. I love their fruity and slightly sweeter style, and their consistency year after year is unmatched.

[Adam LeCroy]

Thanks guys! Can't wait to hear more input.

[Al B.]

When I read your first post I did worry about the bottles you open when they are shut down. You should get a great, fruity bombshell when you open the first bottle for your 5th anniversary but by the time you get to your 10th you might be opening something that has little smell, no fruit on the palate and is just too acidic or tannic - an experience likely to be repeated for your 15th anniversary.

By the time you reach your 20th anniversary the port is likely to be getting itself back into shape. None of the youthful exuberant blueberry but starting to get some mature red jelly bean. 25 and 30 will see more jelly bean and more sweetness. 35-65 will be when a good bottle of mature vintage port really hits its stride, you should start to experience more complexity with the fruit, leather and licorice, mace and nutmeg, should be fabulous.

Personally, if I were doing this I would be buying more bottles from more shippers. Perhaps 4-5 cases so that you can rotate through them and repeat a shipper once every 4-5 years. You can then choose a fruit forward and accessible shipper (like Skeffington), a mid-life bloomer (perhaps Cockburn or Ferreira) and a couple of long lived sleepers (Noval, Taylor, Fonseca, Graham, Dow).

However, you've been very clear in what you've said you want to do, so I won't try to change your mind. The advice to wait until some of the 2011 reviews are published is good advice. It is very unlikely that any particular port will sell out unless Robert Parker gives it 100 points (**sigh**) so I suggest that you aim to place your order with your favourite wine merchant in early Fall this year.

Without the benefit of having tried many of the 2011 final blends, my shortlist for the sleepers would be: Graham (sweet and consistently good in every vintage for decades), Fonseca (becomes very elegant and finessed with age), Noval (fabulous since 1994), Vesuvio (there is an attraction to a single estate wine from a beautiful part of the world). These 4 often form the core part of my purchases from a new declaration.

If I was adding some additional cases I would choose from Dow, Warre, Gould Campbell, Smith Woodhouse, Quarles Harres (early drinker), Skeffington (early drinker), Quevedo (who made a stunning 2008), Taylor (can be quite fiery), Niepoort (if you can find a supplier).

[Adam LeCroy]

From what I've seen so far Vesuvius has me the most intrigued, Taylor's in second. Anyone have a good internet source for these two? Do people ever offer "by the case" discounts or reduced shipping costs?

[Eric Menchen]

Good advice so far. If it were me, I would buy a case of one of the big names like Taylor or Fonseca (I'm not as big a Grahams fan, but recognize it is good juice), or possibly Quinto do Vesuvio; and I would buy a couple of bottles of earlier drinkers, maybe even a Noval Silval or Sandeman Vau. But it is too early to call. I'll read Roy's notes when published to make my purchase decisions.

As for where, I would shop around when they come on the market. Most of my 2009s were purchased from The Chicago Wine Company because they had good prices, but I bought a bunch of 2007 from a local b&m. There are plenty of online retailers and wine-searcher.com will point you to them. Shipping to AL may be an issue, however. Creativity may be called for. A few places offer case discounts, but not many. Wine Chateau (NJ) often has free shipping for 6 or 12 bottles, but I doubt they will have good prices or selection of 20111 VP. Blicker Pierce Wagner (CA) has $9 shipping for a case, but they may not be a good source of new release Port either.

[Adam LeCroy]

New question:

If I were to buy a vintage from say Taylor, Fonseca, Graham, and Vesuvio would that taste profile hold up to a different vintage? For instance, the 2009 Vesuvio is peppery, would the 2011 also be peppery. If the 2009 Taylor is datey, would the 2011 retain that characteristic?

Basically, would a blindfolded judge be able to tell which Port producer was which when given the 4 samples?

Trying to see if buying a flight now would help us make our decision. Probably should have asked this sooner ha ha. Live and learn.

[Kurt Wieneke]

Since you mentioned your wife likes port and will likely be participating with the anniversary drink, let me give you a different perspective of 'general' house styles (with age):

Masculine - Taylor's, Dow's, Noval
Feminine - Fonseca, Graham's, Warre's, Sandeman
Neutral - Vesuvio, Croft, Gould-Campbell, Smith-Woodhouse

[Glenn E.]

Basically, would a blindfolded judge be able to tell which Port producer was which when given the 4 samples?

Probably not. As much as we talk about "house style" it's a pretty subtle thing, and it varies slightly year-by-year. Graham is typically a little bit sweeter than others; Dow is typically a little bit drier. But in both cases we're only talking 2-3%. We have done tastings like that and the results have been statistically not too far off of what random guesses could have accomplished.

That said, blind tastings are a lot of fun. It's hard to even get in the neighborhood on vintage, and guesses about the producer are pretty much just that - guesses. But when you get one right it sure makes you feel good!

[Adam LeCroy]

Good news!

I contacted all the wine shops in my area and one of them said they used to be a wine rep and had contacts that could get any of the VPs from major houses with a preorder after the declarations and ratings are given.

I have a source. . . and it gives a 10% case discount!

[Adam LeCroy]

Ok, so I've looked at tasting notes for 2011.

It's down to Quinta do Vesuvio and Sandeman. It seems like Vesuvio will open up earlier, and we're planning on drinking these wines for 50+ years, so maybe Sandeman is the way to go?

Thoughts? Anyone tried both yet?

[Eric Menchen]

While Sandeman has been improving in the last decade or so, I wouldn't initiate a purchase for multiple bottles without additional information (e.g. tasting notes). It may turn out to be a great QPR, but who knows? Well, I suppose for the right price I might buy more than one, but at the moment that price would be <$40.

[Adam LeCroy]

While Sandeman has been improving in the last decade or so, I wouldn't initiate a purchase for multiple bottles without additional information (e.g. tasting notes). It may turn out to be a great QPR, but who knows? Well, I suppose for the right price I might buy more than one, but at the moment that price would be <$40.

Awesome, thanks!

So far I've tried to contact 3 people online that are offering QdV, but even though they're "international shippers" they don't ship to the US. Called my local wine shop I mentioned above, but they haven't gotten back to me. So far I've only seen QdV in 6 bottle cases, so I guess I'll be getting 3 cases which should be in the ballpark of $1,000 maybe?

Any other suggestions on where to find an inside US shipper with access to Qunita do Vesuvio?

[Andy Velebil]

While Sandeman has been improving in the last decade or so, I wouldn't initiate a purchase for multiple bottles without additional information (e.g. tasting notes). It may turn out to be a great QPR, but who knows? Well, I suppose for the right price I might buy more than one, but at the moment that price would be <$40.

Awesome, thanks!

So far I've tried to contact 3 people online that are offering QdV, but even though they're "international shippers" they don't ship to the US. Called my local wine shop I mentioned above, but they haven't gotten back to me. So far I've only seen QdV in 6 bottle cases, so I guess I'll be getting 3 cases which should be in the ballpark of $1,000 maybe?

Any other suggestions on where to find an inside US shipper with access to Qunita do Vesuvio?

As far as 2011 VP's go, they are not available in the USA yet and won't be until later this year. There are some shops offering pre-arrival ordering at the moment. As far as I know they are not available in other countries yet as well (pre-arrival orders only being taken as well). Some producers haven't even done the final bottling of 2011 VP's yet.

In the USA Vesuvio only comes in 6-pack "footlockers" as we here call them. Very beautiful cases with a book about the Quinta and a bin marker inside. Once emptied they make perfect storage cases for CD's, movies, etc.

[Adam LeCroy]

While Sandeman has been improving in the last decade or so, I wouldn't initiate a purchase for multiple bottles without additional information (e.g. tasting notes). It may turn out to be a great QPR, but who knows? Well, I suppose for the right price I might buy more than one, but at the moment that price would be <$40.

Awesome, thanks!

So far I've tried to contact 3 people online that are offering QdV, but even though they're "international shippers" they don't ship to the US. Called my local wine shop I mentioned above, but they haven't gotten back to me. So far I've only seen QdV in 6 bottle cases, so I guess I'll be getting 3 cases which should be in the ballpark of $1,000 maybe?

Any other suggestions on where to find an inside US shipper with access to Qunita do Vesuvio?

As far as 2011 VP's go, they are not available in the USA yet and won't be until later this year. There are some shops offering pre-arrival ordering at the moment. As far as I know they are not available in other countries yet as well (pre-arrival orders only being taken as well). Some producers haven't even done the final bottling of 2011 VP's yet.

In the USA Vesuvio only comes in 6-pack "footlockers" as we here call them. Very beautiful cases with a book about the Quinta and a bin marker inside. Once emptied they make perfect storage cases for CD's, movies, etc.

Where might I go about pre-arrival ordering for some?