Moses Botbol wrote:That '63 Fonseca is more marketing than anything different than any other '63 Fonseca IMO.
I would agree with the whole "Pipe" angle, great marketing. However what makes this a bit different is all these bottles have been in the same place all those years.
And a 3 year bottling. Which I don't think I've ever seen before.
I can't swear to it, but I've had a couple of '67 Vargellas bottles that were bottled in '70 and I'd be surprised if you weren't involved in at least one of them.
Unless you meant specifically the F63, in case I agree with you. Never seen that before!
What is the maximum time allowed for bottling of a vintage port?
I just registered for Bonham's, a house that I've never done business with before. I see that the catalog for the February wine auction has not been published yet, and is expected a minimum of 2 weeks before the auction.
Any thoughts as to the price estimate in the United Kingdom? Christopher Kiellor shows several cases of this wine in the range GBP 2000-3000, found on Winesearcher Pro. In that case, £1800 isn't too bad a deal, but this isn't taking a whole lot of things into account--like buyer's premium, taxes, and so forth. Never have bought in the UK myself; I imagine it's complicated.
Last edited by John Trombley on Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Trombley wrote:What is the maximum time allowed for bottling of a vintage port?
I just registered for Bonham's, a haouse that I've never done business with before. I see that the catalog for the February wine auction has not been published yet, and is expected a minimum of 2 weeks before the auction.
Any thoughts as to the price estimate in the United Kingdom? Christopher Kiellor shows several cases of this wine in the range GBP 2000-3000, found on Winesearcher Pro. In that case, £1800 isn't too bad a deal, but this isn't taking a whole lot of things into account--like buyer's premium, taxes, and so forth. Never have bought in the UK myself; I imagine it's complicated.
Essentially, your window is 2-3 years, otherwise you fall into the LBV category which is 4-6 years. The regs are a bit more precise than that, but in broad strokes, that's it.
John Trombley wrote:What is the maximum time allowed for bottling of a vintage port?
18-30 months, as I recall. I think for IVDP purposes that harvest is nominally considered to start Sept 1, so bottling cannot begin until March 1 of year+2 and must take place by March 1 of year+3. Andy or Roy (or Eric) might know the specifics off the top of their heads.
John Trombley wrote:What is the maximum time allowed for bottling of a vintage port?
I just registered for Bonham's, a house that I've never done business with before. I see that the catalog for the February wine auction has not been published yet, and is expected a minimum of 2 weeks before the auction.
Any thoughts as to the price estimate in the United Kingdom? Christopher Kiellor shows several cases of this wine in the range GBP 2000-3000, found on Winesearcher Pro. In that case, £1800 isn't too bad a deal, but this isn't taking a whole lot of things into account--like buyer's premium, taxes, and so forth. Never have bought in the UK myself; I imagine it's complicated.
John - buying in the UK is straightforward and simple. Shipping back to the US is an absolute nightmare and expensive to do. There are some threads discussing doing exactly that.
Glenn is spot on. 18-30 months is correct for the bottling of a VP after harvest. But first, samples must be approved by the IVDP, before bottling is allowed.
There was inevitably a certain about of bottle variation after 50 years and this is reflected in the notes accompanying the sale (e.g. lot 335, of 2 dozen, 5 are base of neck, 6 very top, 1 high shoulder, corroded capsules, 1 perforated, 7 with signs of old seepage http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23370/lot/335/ ). I should point out that the last time I drank Fonseca 1963 (at Fonseca’s bicentennial dinner in 2015) there was also significant bottle variation from Portuguese bottled stock where cellar conditions are not normally as good as they are in a British country house.
The following notes are based on four different bottles, 2 (A & B) decanted an hour prior to lunch and 2 (C & D) decanted immediately before drinking:
Uh, didn't these come from a British country house. Contradictory?
The amount of bottle variation in these is a bit scary. Two seemed to show well and two did not. That's 50/50 odds on the samples. Not very good odds in my book. All stored together there shouldn't be that much variation as his notes seem to indicate. What it does show is the cellar wasn't that great at keeping a consistent temperature, or most likely had some warm spells along the way.
Given the very large number of lots, it will be interesting to see how the prices change as the auction progresses. I've watched a few auctions before with 3, maybe 5 cases of something, never 20+.
Eric Menchen wrote:The bottle variation is disturbing to me.
Given the very large number of lots, it will be interesting to see how the prices change as the auction progresses. I've watched a few auctions before with 3, maybe 5 cases of something, never 20+.
It could explain why the family is willing to sell so many bottles. That report however, is not what I would like to see for an upcoming auction. Perhaps resellers may buy this up, but from what I understand, lots of upper end wines are languishing on the shelves and in warehouses right now.
From what I see of Mr. Mayson's note, there was only one or two bottles in four that showed the way you'd have expected one of the world's most storied wines to. These bottles would have been much better sold in a smaller number with bottles not in good condition, as far as can be determined, removed. Would I spend good wine money on one of these lots? Quick answer=no. Not only that, it may depress the price quite far on this item at auction in the future, not just because of increased supply, but because of the evident chancy condition of much of what is coming to market. Not, all in all, of what one would expect from Bonham's.
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