The Greatest Ports - 2012 edition

[Shawn Denkler]

The question is: What are the greatest ports of all time? This would be the 2012 Edition - the ports would score 96 - 100 points drinking this year. Many great vintages have faded. They may have scored very high in the past but not now.

I'm doing a "Great Port Tasting" in November in Napa (see the Offline Planner forum section for details on the event)

The Greatest Ports of all time chosen for the event so far:
1851 Stibbart's
1927 Cockburn, Fonseca, Graham, Niepoort, Quinta do Noval, Taylor, Warre
1931 Quinta do Noval

1945 Croft, Graham, Niepoort, Taylor
1948 Fonseca, Taylor
1955 Fonseca, Graham, Niepoort, Taylor

I am not including anything younger than 1955 because something like 1963 Noval Nacional would overpower the older ports becing tasted. Younger vintages may not be showing their full potential yet.

Please give me your comments on anything that should be added or subtracted from the list above. What would your greatest ports list be 1955 and older?

[Roy Hersh]

Charging $3k per person, kind of makes this a commercial venture. I allowed it in your original posting in the Offline Planner section, but if this particular thread turns commercial, all will be removed. Please do feel free to continue to discuss ONLY the aspects of the Greatest Ports in this particular thread. Thanks Shawn.

[Al B.]

Based purely on recent personal experience, I would rank the following up there with the ones you have listed. They may not have the same "street appeal", but they are fabulously good wines.
1922 - Warre
1927 - Croft
1934 - Noval
1942 - Niepoort
1945 - Morgan
1948 - Croft

All of these were scored at 96 or above when I tasted them, most have been tasted at least twice - and I seem to have a reputation for being a low scorer!

However, getting hold of some of these might be a challenge...

[Roy Hersh]

My list of must include GREAT Vintage Ports: (you did not mention Vintage but I am assuming you are not going to include Colheitas)

1924 Dow

1927 Taylor, Graham, Niepoort

1931 Noval

1945: Croft, Taylor, Niepoort, Graham

1948, Fonseca, Taylor, Graham

[Marc J.]

On my my list I would, without a doubt, include the 1931 Noval Nacional and in addition I would probably add the 1896 Dow, 1927 Niepoort, 1927 Taylor, 1927 Fonseca, 1945 Croft, 1945 Niepoort, 1948 Taylor, 1948 Fonseca, 1955 Niepoort and possibly the 1934 Noval.

[Jay Hack]

The only one of these that I have had is the 1945 Grahams, in Hong Kong in 1981 (before they started counterfeiting everything). I do not know if it was one of the greatest ever, but it is difficult to believe there are very many that are better.

[Moses Botbol]

It's a shame not to include 1970; I don't know of one brand that is "not at full potential yet" and I have had most. Not including Niepoort and Fonseca 1970 would be a shame.

1908 Graham
1900 Dow
1935 Cockburn or Taylor

[Shawn Denkler]

Three different people have listed a Dow as a greatest port, the 1896, 1900, and 1924. I've heard the 1896 & 1924 are legendary but do not know much about the 1900. The great variation in bottling often means people are not tasting the best made.

I have attended a Dow vertical from 1927 on so have missed all three of these. I have certainly had many fine bottles of Dow but not one that fits in the elite group of the greats. I wonder why the older ones are legendary but not latter ones.

[Shawn Denkler]

by Moses Botbol » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:00 pm
It's a shame not to include 1970; I don't know of one brand that is "not at full potential yet" and I have had most. Not including Niepoort and Fonseca 1970 would be a shame.

I would include Taylor in the list of 1970s that are not ready.These are my favorite three of the vintage - all well over 96 points - but they are not ready and will be greater ports in the future. The 1970 vintage has produced three superstars. Maybe a fourth, I have not had the 1970 Nacional lately. Many of the rest are excellent ports that are drinking well now but I feel are not worthy of being on a greatest list.

[Roy Hersh]

Andy swears the 1970 Taylor is fully mature and not getting any better from here.

[Rob C.]

My only comment, if you are looking for the very greatest in the T27 / G45-type bracket, is that I think you look rather heavy on 55s...

[Moses Botbol]

Andy swears the 1970 Taylor is fully mature and not getting any better from here.

I would include Taylor in the list of 1970s that are not ready.

I would not say the Taylor 70 is not ready and probably not getting any better in a major sense. Ask me in 40 years and perhaps I'll say that I did not know sh** about port back then...

[Shawn Denkler]

by Al B. » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:35 am

Based purely on recent personal experience, I would rank the following up there with the ones you have listed. They may not have the same "street appeal", but they are fabulously good wines.
1922 - Warre
1927 - Croft
1934 - Noval
1942 - Niepoort
1945 - Morgan
1948 - Croft

All of these were scored at 96 or above when I tasted them, most have been tasted at least twice - and I seem to have a reputation for being a low scorer!
However, getting hold of some of these might be a challenge...

The 1934 Noval is a top port and the 1942 Niepoort is very fine. The others are not usually on top port lists but you live in England and must be sourcing ports from superb storage conditions. I've had a few lesser known ports that have suprised me by scoring least 96 points. They have come from great cellars and sadly I'll probably never see them again because finding them is such a challenge.

[Andy Velebil]

It's a shame not to include 1970; I don't know of one brand that is "not at full potential yet" and I have had most. Not including Niepoort and Fonseca 1970 would be a shame.

I can give you a list of 1970's that have exceeded their "full potential." Just one is Royal Oporto...a nice bottle but has started a very slow decline IMO. Sandeman, very nice but probably not going to get any better. Kopke is slowly sliding (the Sao Luis is still holding nicely though), and that is just a couple off the top of my head.

Don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean they aren't good Ports still but making a bold statement like that is a bit much IMO.

[Moses Botbol]

It's a shame not to include 1970; I don't know of one brand that is "not at full potential yet" and I have had most. Not including Niepoort and Fonseca 1970 would be a shame.

I can give you a list of 1970's that have exceeded their "full potential." Just one is Royal Oporto...a nice bottle but has started a very slow decline IMO. Sandeman, very nice but probably not going to get any better. Kopke is slowly sliding (the Sao Luis is still holding nicely though), and that is just a couple off the top of my head.

Don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean they aren't good Ports still but making a bold statement like that is a bit much IMO.

I meant there are none that at not yet at full potential, I mentioned nothing on declining bottles. I agree with you on the state of Royal Oporto, Kopke, and Sandeman.

[Glenn E.]

It's a shame not to include 1970; I don't know of one brand that is "not at full potential yet" and I have had most. Not including Niepoort and Fonseca 1970 would be a shame.

I can give you a list of 1970's that have exceeded their "full potential." Just one is Royal Oporto...a nice bottle but has started a very slow decline IMO. Sandeman, very nice but probably not going to get any better. Kopke is slowly sliding (the Sao Luis is still holding nicely though), and that is just a couple off the top of my head.

Don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean they aren't good Ports still but making a bold statement like that is a bit much IMO.

I meant there are none that at not yet at full potential, I mentioned nothing on declining bottles. I agree with you on the state of Royal Oporto, Kopke, and Sandeman.

I don't think that well-stored bottles of Taylor or Fonseca are at their full potential yet. A good bottle of either of those needs at least another 10 years to peak. I suspect that the same is true of Graham and Niepoort as well, but don't have sufficient experience with them to really say for certain. And I think there's very little chance that the 1970 Nacional is at its peak yet, but having never had it I'm basing my opinion only on the TNs I've seen.

[Al B.]

by Al B. » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:35 am

Based purely on recent personal experience, I would rank the following up there with the ones you have listed. They may not have the same "street appeal", but they are fabulously good wines.
1922 - Warre
1927 - Croft
1934 - Noval
1942 - Niepoort
1945 - Morgan
1948 - Croft

All of these were scored at 96 or above when I tasted them, most have been tasted at least twice - and I seem to have a reputation for being a low scorer!
However, getting hold of some of these might be a challenge...

The 1934 Noval is a top port and the 1942 Niepoort is very fine. The others are not usually on top port lists but you live in England and must be sourcing ports from superb storage conditions. I've had a few lesser known ports that have suprised me by scoring least 96 points. They have come from great cellars and sadly I'll probably never see them again because finding them is such a challenge.

There might be a mix. The Warre 1922 and Noval 1934 came from cold Scottish cellars. The Niepoort, Morgan and Croft were all ex-cellars from Vila Nova de Gaia. I forget where the Croft '27 came from.

[Andy Velebil]

Alex,
The '34 Noval, if it's the one we shared last year, came from my cellar and was bought at auction here in the States. It was a "Sherry-Lehmann Selection" which is out of New York. It was shipped there by a London company. So I suspect it was stored on this side of the pond at least some part of its life, but there is no indication on the bottle of when it was shipped here.

[Roy Hersh]

I opened one in 2011 at Sean C's home too. :)

[Al B.]

Alex,
The '34 Noval, if it's the one we shared last year, came from my cellar and was bought at auction here in the States. It was a "Sherry-Lehmann Selection" which is out of New York. It was shipped there by a London company. So I suspect it was stored on this side of the pond at least some part of its life, but there is no indication on the bottle of when it was shipped here.

That bottle did show extremely well, and was consistent with the other two that I have had, but it was the other two that I was thinking about when I wrote this note. They both came from the same Scottish (and therefore presumably cold and damp) cellar.