Restaurants and Bars w noteworthy Port/Madeira offerings

[Miguel Simoes]

I always struggle to find restaurants w notable Port/Madeira offerings. Notable either because their offerings are either extensive, or high quality, or both.

Thought would be good to share the places we find such that others may more easily find their way there!

In NYC, this is the best I have found so far http://www.restauranthearth.com/wine.pdf (check page 72!). Especially extensive selection of Madeira.

In Boston, Mooo Restaurant carries the 1941 Quinta do Noval Colheita. Had my 3rd glass of it this past weekend and they actually opened a new bottle for me! Bottled 2001. Wish someone else had had that privilege a few days prior to my visit, but it still felt pretty special!

What other bars/restaurants would you recommend?

[Tom Archer]

Finding restaurants with good port in the US is going to be a challenge.

As a nation, the US consumes almost exactly half the wine per capita than in the UK, and of that wine, only one bottle in 889 is port, compared to just one bottle in 147 in the UK.

And despite the British drinking 12 times as much port per person than our former colonial cousins, it's hard to find restaurants here with anything remotely special on their lists, and when you do find it, they tend to charge a fortune and make a hash of serving it.

So corkage is king. BYO as they say in NZ.

The better challenge is to find restaurants that charge little or nothing for corkage, have the right ambience and a plentiful supply of clean glasses.

Restaurant chains tend to struggle with the concept of corkage, and often have no means of entering it as a till item - but generous tips are often a welcome substitute...

[Andy Velebil]

+1 to what Tom said. Here in the States it's usually really tough to find good places with any wine on the list, other than the same old cheap over priced stuff. And good luck finding Port or Madeira (or even a harder time finding Portuguese dry reds and whites).

Luckily here in Cali you can BYOB for free or for a corkage charge.

There used to be a place near me which had a nice selection of well priced Ports. But those days are gone as we drank it dry so to speak and they haven't replaced those good bottles with other good bottles. Just some basic Rubies and tawny's mainly. So we stopped going.

off the top of my head, I can't think of any place close to me which has a really nice Port and/or Madeira list.

[Miguel Simoes]

I am surprised to hear what you say. Even though the selection is hardly ever very large or out of the ordinary, I generally find at least a couple of port/madeira offerings at nicer restaurants.

Another example of a place w a decent offering of Port in NYC is Club Macanudo http://www.clubmacanudo.com/pdfs/Dinner ... s-Menu.pdf (page 7). Sadly they dont have any Madeira, but have a decent line-up of Tawnies 10-40 yr and LBV/Vintage Port, all available by the glass.

Also, at Mooo Restaurant in Boston they also offer several Madeiras. Remember seeing a number of bottles from the early 1900s behind the bartender.

[Bradley Bogdan]

At the risk of derailing the thread, I have a pet peeve with restaurants that put youngish VP on the BTG menu and wonder why it doesn't sell to the nerds that buy off of other areas of the list. When your only VP is Graham's '03, no one has an expectation that's going to be worth it BTG due to a) having been open for god knows how long as you don't sell any b) or equally bad, you're being cracked a fresh bottle of a wine that's no where close to mature. That's leaving alone the fact that dessert wines are usually abused in a variety of other ways as well: glassware, service, temp, price etc.

There is a restaurant locally that keeps a couple Broadbent Madeiras on the BTG list (Abruzzi's, if you're ever in Arcata, CA). Its one of the few restaurants i trust to take out of towners to, and they love doing corkage on the older bottles i bring, so they usually don't charge (the benefits of sharing!). Unfortunately the first time I went there just for drink and ordered a Madeira BTG the girl bar tending asked "neat or on the rocks" followed by "would you like a double?" She was confused that I insisted on a wine glass rather than the tumbler she had ready.

[John M.]

I am unaware of any local restaurants with decent port offerings--although there is a place in Newark.

I'll do a glass of nice tawny now and then in an active, better restaurant bar where I guess there is at least some demand/turnover of the bottle and it wasn't opened 2 years ago---but usually the offerings are suspect especially rubies. Like Bradley, I have also been served port in strange ways.....mostly in a tiny wine glass filled to the top. A very meager pour (not 3 oz) and no way to swirl and allow it to open up. In those cases, I have to ask for a large wine glass.

So here's a question/idea. For port, why don't restaurants keep 375's on hand. A whole bottle of port can be an undertaking at 19.5% alcohol versus regular wine at 1/3rd to 1/2 that (...here come the snarky comments about drinking a whole bottle ). With a split, it would tend not to be opened as long if at the bar; at table it would be easier to sell (since it can be expensive relatively speaking). Most seem to drink port after a meal, by then you may be full, getting tired, etc. so lets make it easier for the consumer to buy. In order for this to work you'd likley need filtered LBVs or ruby reserves and of course tawnies.

[Glenn E.]

Right now the Purple Café in Bellevue, WA, has a rather nice Madeira offering. For $25 you get a flight of four RWC Historic Series Madeiras - Charlotte, Savannah, Boston, and New York. They are 1.5 oz pours, but even so that's a pretty good deal. They also have a 2-page spread in their wine menu on what Madeira is, how it is made, and a little bit about its history.

I have a good relationship with the Sommelier there because we regularly bring in bottles of Port and share with him and the server. So my pours might have been a bit more than 1.5 oz.

[John F. Newman]

I am unaware of any local restaurants with decent port offerings--although there is a place in Newark.

I'll do a glass of nice tawny now and then in an active, better restaurant bar where I guess there is at least some demand/turnover of the bottle and it wasn't opened 2 years ago---but usually the offerings are suspect especially rubies. Like Bradley, I have also been served port in strange ways.....mostly in a tiny wine glass filled to the top. A very meager pour (not 3 oz) and no way to swirl and allow it to open up. In those cases, I have to ask for a large wine glass.

So here's a question/idea. For port, why don't restaurants keep 375's on hand. A whole bottle of port can be an undertaking at 19.5% alcohol versus regular wine at 1/3rd to 1/2 that (...here come the snarky comments about drinking a whole bottle ). With a split, it would tend not to be opened as long if at the bar; at table it would be easier to sell (since it can be expensive relatively speaking). Most seem to drink port after a meal, by then you may be full, getting tired, etc. so lets make it easier for the consumer to buy. In order for this to work you'd likley need filtered LBVs or ruby reserves and of course tawnies.

which please?

[John M.]

That tapas place you told me about.

[John F. Newman]

That tapas place you told me about.

Duh! Lol.

Mompou, Ferry Street, Newark, NJ

[Andy Velebil]

So here's a question/idea. For port, why don't restaurants keep 375's on hand. A whole bottle of port can be an undertaking at 19.5% alcohol versus regular wine at 1/3rd to 1/2 that (...here come the snarky comments about drinking a whole bottle ). With a split, it would tend not to be opened as long if at the bar; at table it would be easier to sell (since it can be expensive relatively speaking). Most seem to drink port after a meal, by then you may be full, getting tired, etc. so lets make it easier for the consumer to buy. In order for this to work you'd likley need filtered LBVs or ruby reserves and of course tawnies.

I've always wondered this too. Why not just stock .375's instead. I would assume it's the wine distributors who want to sell more $$$ in wine and that translates to selling bigger bottles worth more. That is pure speculation BTW, but would make sense.

Or it's hard to get .375's of the lower tier stuff, like Reserve Ruby's/Tawny's and below.

[Jay Hack]

Berns in Tampa. They had 1850 Sercial by the glass, and many others.

[Tom Archer]

For port, why don't restaurants keep 375's on hand

Or smaller - bottle rubies and reserves in 20cL format with screw top, load onto cardboard trays of 12 or 24, shrink wrap the trays and ship them by the palletload to the wholesale stores where the restaurants buy their supplies.

Persuade the ordinary restaurants to serve port by the 20cL bottle, rather than by the glass, and avoid having customers being served from stale half empty 75cL bottles.

It also means that when a restaurant customer asks for a port, they'll be getting two glasses instead of one - which should be good for sales..

[Bradley Bogdan]

For port, why don't restaurants keep 375's on hand

Or smaller - bottle rubies and reserves in 20cL format with screw top, load onto cardboard trays of 12 or 24, shrink wrap the trays and ship them by the palletload to the wholesale stores where the restaurants buy their supplies.

Persuade the ordinary restaurants to serve port by the 20cL bottle, rather than by the glass, and avoid having customers being served from stale half empty 75cL bottles.

It also means that when a restaurant customer asks for a port, they'll be getting two glasses instead of one - which should be good for sales..

I believe it still requires a special dispensation from TTB to import or bottle wine in sizes other than those standard ones they recognize. Guessing 200mL isn't one of those sizes. They could have gotten rid of that rule by now though, hopefully.

[John M.]

I see Q bottles (187) for Grahams Six Grapes so they must exist/be allowed in some way. I've seen 375 for Fonseca Bin 27 and Grahams's Six Grapes. Its a start. If there is demand or would stimulate sales, wouldn't a producer do it (or push to be able to do it)?

[Andy Velebil]

I think I found the answer to the TTB's regulations regarding wine bottle size.

§ 4.72 Metric standards of fill.

(a) Authorized standards of fill. The standards of fill for wine are the following: 3 liters, 1.5 liters, 1 liter, 750 milliliters, 500 milliliters, 375 milliliters, 187 milliliters, 100 milliliters, 50 milliliters.
(b) Sizes larger than 3 liters. Wine may be bottled or packed in containers of 4 liters or larger if the containers are filled and labeled in quantities of even liters (4 liters, 5 liters, 6 liters, etc.).
(c) Tolerances. The tolerances in fill are the same as are allowed by §4.37 in respect to statement of net contents on labels.

So the answer is it has to be in one of the above sizes. Interesting the regulations for distilled spirits allows a 200 millimeter size, but not for wine.

Some more info

§ 4.71
Standard wine containers.
(a) A standard wine container shall be made, formed and filled to meet the following specifications:
(1) Design. It shall be so made and formed as not to mislead the purchaser. Wine containers shall be held (irrespective of the correctness of the net contents specified on the label) to be so made and formed as to mislead the purchaser if the actual capacity is substantially less than the apparent capacity upon visual examination under ordinary conditions of purchase or use; and
(2) Fill. It shall be so filled as to contain the quantity of wine specified in one of the standards of fill prescribed in § 4.72; and
(3) Headspace. It shall be made and filled as to have a headspace not in excess of 6 percent of its total capacity after closure if the net content of the container is 187 milliliters or more, and a headspace not in excess of 10 percent of such capacity in the case of all other containers.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/4.72

[Miguel Simoes]

Berns in Tampa. They had 1850 Sercial by the glass, and many others.

Nice, thanks Jack. Will have to find an excuse to go to Tampa. That would be quite the treat!

[Bradley Bogdan]

I think I found the answer to the TTB's regulations regarding wine bottle size.

§ 4.72 Metric standards of fill.

(a) Authorized standards of fill. The standards of fill for wine are the following: 3 liters, 1.5 liters, 1 liter, 750 milliliters, 500 milliliters, 375 milliliters, 187 milliliters, 100 milliliters, 50 milliliters.
(b) Sizes larger than 3 liters. Wine may be bottled or packed in containers of 4 liters or larger if the containers are filled and labeled in quantities of even liters (4 liters, 5 liters, 6 liters, etc.).
(c) Tolerances. The tolerances in fill are the same as are allowed by §4.37 in respect to statement of net contents on labels.

So the answer is it has to be in one of the above sizes. Interesting the regulations for distilled spirits allows a 200 millimeter size, but not for wine.

Some more info

§ 4.71
Standard wine containers.
(a) A standard wine container shall be made, formed and filled to meet the following specifications:
(1) Design. It shall be so made and formed as not to mislead the purchaser. Wine containers shall be held (irrespective of the correctness of the net contents specified on the label) to be so made and formed as to mislead the purchaser if the actual capacity is substantially less than the apparent capacity upon visual examination under ordinary conditions of purchase or use; and
(2) Fill. It shall be so filled as to contain the quantity of wine specified in one of the standards of fill prescribed in § 4.72; and
(3) Headspace. It shall be made and filled as to have a headspace not in excess of 6 percent of its total capacity after closure if the net content of the container is 187 milliliters or more, and a headspace not in excess of 10 percent of such capacity in the case of all other containers.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/4.72

Nice find! I think that's actually the same spot they pulled the text they used in one of my enology classes there, so nice to see something stuck haha.

Also, has anyone ever seen wine in a 100ml bottle? I've seen all the rest, but not that one.

[John F. Newman]

I was at an "Iberian" restaurant in Newark, NJ this afternoon. 12 ports on the menu: Barros 10 yr; andresen 20 yr. (these were called "house ports"; and various vintage ports varying in date range - and no other ports.

When I asked when any of the ports were opened... They had no idea, obviously not opened in recent memory. Although I stuck with sangria at lunch, the safe bet was the tawnies and the rest was pure gamble.

[Al B.]

I was interested reading Tom's post earlier about the proportion of wine to port sold in the US and the UK. I guess that does show up in the way you can find port in a restaurant. Port in a restaurant in the UK is unusual but some places have quite a wide choice - you just need to know where to go. Our London favourite has 4 choices of VP available by the bottle (Dow 1994, Smith Woodhouse 1983, Offley 1983 and Taylor 1980) with the SW83 being available by the glass. Whenever a new bottle of SW83 is decanted, a neck tag is put on the bottle with the time and date so you can always find out how long the bottle has been open.

If anyone is planning a trip to London, let us know and we'll point you towards the places we know offer good port.