VP vs. LBV: A Port Dilemma

[Roy Hersh]

I can think of a few Port producers that are leaders in the LBV category that in my opinion do a better job in producing (consistently very good or better) LBV bottlings than their own Vintage Ports. Is this a problem? What do you think and can you think of any situation where this is the case? Feel free to name producers, as will I once others participate.

[John Danza]

I haven't done enough compare-and-contrast between LBV and VP of the same companies to give an opinion on any one producer. However, in answer to your question about whether or not it's a problem, I would answer "no" from a drinker's standpoint, as long as it's a tendency that is known. This is a great thread topic for identifying which producers have that tendency, so I'm glad you brought it up. I'm only now starting to experiment with ageing LBVs because 1) it's interesting, and 2) acquisition costs are cheaper.

[Roy Hersh]

John, maybe you want to join us for our upcoming aged-LBV tasting. Have a look at the "offline planner" section of our Forum for details.

[John Danza]

John, maybe you want to join us for our upcoming aged-LBV tasting. Have a look at the "offline planner" section of our Forum for details.

I would love to Roy, but I'll be in Atlanta that weekend for an IWFS Board meeting.

[Roy Hersh]

OK, I just would like to have you more involved in our tastings as I think you'd really have fun at these Port-centric events and we'd benefit from your knowledge and personality!

[Eric Menchen]

I have consistently liked the Dow LBVs of the last decade, and I'd say they are at least average or above average compared to other LBVs; but I can't really comment on their corresponding VPs. Their earlier VPs have been good, but IMHO, average or below average relative to their peers. (I haven't had the 1980, which is probably an exception to this.)

[John M.]

I think Quinta do Crasto falls in that category for me. Very nice LBV s but find their VP to be average. And their regular wines are quite nice. .. probably just a matter of focus. I don't see it as a problem if the economics work for them.

[Moses Botbol]

I put Warre as the leader in LBV; it's most widely known & available LBV in my locale (no hard evidence to support this), but is it better than their VP? I don't think so. Whatever Warre is doing to their LBV, they certainly have it down. The two other LBV's I like; Ramos & Ferreira are not as good as their VP either. Is it the extra years in wood and/or grape selection? Dow LBV is not up to par with their VP... I guess I am having a hard time to think of a producer making better LBV than VP, but I am sure there must be some???

John M. mentioned Crasto, ok... I can see that. Their VP (or port in general) has never impressed me, but I remember on the Harvest tour trying their line up & noting the LBV is being very nice and powerful.

[John Danza]

I put Warre as the leader in LBV; it's most widely known & available LBV in my locale

This is interesting Moses. I can't think of the last time I saw a Warre LBV in the Chicago area. It's usually only their VP, their ruby (can't remember the name), or the Otima tawnies. I'll have to look out for them.

[John M.]

I agree with Moses on Warre's but also include Smith-Woodhouse as making readily available and fine LBVs (the 1995 SW is outstanding). But both of these brands make very nice VP as well so I did not include.

Have had Ramos Pinto & Ferreira--My scores for the LBV and VP are similar--but they just did not come to mind. Yet--I would agree--but also need to revisit that. The Crasto has always struck me as very good with the LBV, yet the VP is good so relatively speaking their LBVs perform better in the LBV class than their VP perform in the VP class.

[Mahmoud Ali]

I can think of a few Port producers that are leaders in the LBV category that in my opinion do a better job in producing (consistently very good or better) LBV bottlings than their own Vintage Ports.

So far, if I've read the posts correctly, one vote for Crasto making a better LBV than their VP. I don't have enough experience to offer an opinion. Otherwise comments about Warre's and Smith Woodhouse reflects my opinion of them making the some of the best LBVs around.

Roy, I'm anxiously awaiting for your comments.

Mahmoud.

[Monique Heinemans.]

I don't have enough experience to offer an opinion. Otherwise comments about Warre's and Smith Woodhouse reflects my opinion of them making the some of the best LBVs around.

Same to me and reading my tasting notes I noticed I've rated the Smith Woodhouse 1995 even better than some VP's I had.

[Paul Fountain]

I haven't had the opportunity to try the Warres or the Smith-Woodhouse as they don't seem to get shipped it out here, despite some of the other Warres products being available. I think there would be a strong argument against both houses producing better LBV than VP. Same goes for Dow.
The 2003 Noval LBV is sensational, but not nearly as fantastic as the 2003 VP and presumably the 2003 Nacional
During the 2013 harvest tour, we tried some older Quinta de la Rosa LBVs, which were seriously impressive (back to 1991 I think), but the only Vintage Port of theirs that I have tried is the 2011 which was also excellent.

[Moses Botbol]

During the 2013 harvest tour, we tried some older Quinta de la Rosa LBVs, which were seriously impressive (back to 1991 I think), but the only Vintage Port of theirs that I have tried is the 2011 which was also excellent.

I find the lower the category of Port, the better the job Qunita de la Rosa does. Entry ports and LBV are their strong suit (along with dry wine).

[John M.]

I would have to agree on Quinta de la Rosa...their LBV and Ruby Reserve are pretty good, had their 2009 VP and gave it a good score but agina, within each class, the LBV seems to fare better.

[Roy Hersh]

I think that 2011 may go a long way to changing your perception of Qta de la Rosa. Clearly the best VP of theirs I've ever had, albeit they've not been making them all that long.

[Bradley Bogdan]

I think that 2011 may go a long way to changing your perception of Qta de la Rosa. Clearly the best VP of theirs I've ever had, albeit they've not been making them all that long.

Is that an indication of a progression of ability/increased focus on VP, or just an indication of a great year where the fruit was so good that a lot of things worked?

[Andy Velebil]

I think that 2011 may go a long way to changing your perception of Qta de la Rosa. Clearly the best VP of theirs I've ever had, albeit they've not been making them all that long.

At least not for public sale anyways LOL.

[Miguel Simoes]

I think that 2011 may go a long way to changing your perception of Qta de la Rosa. Clearly the best VP of theirs I've ever had, albeit they've not been making them all that long.

At least not for public sale anyways LOL.

Have a bottle of their 1994 VP and low expectations to go alongside it... will be opening it sometime over the next few months and report back!

[dom carter]

I agree about the Warre's - their 2002 Bottle Aged (unfilitered) LBV available in the UK from Waitrose is excellent.