For The Love Of Port

Michael Ferrier · Post by **Michael Ferrier** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:04 am

There is an interesting article in Decanter Magazine on LBV : see
http://www.decanter.com/news/112423.html

Raj Patil · Post by **Raj Patil** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:01 am

thanks for the link, must be too early in am, but what is Christian Seely's comment mean about not wanting to put recent grapes into LBV?

Luc Gauthier · Post by **Luc Gauthier** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:06 am

If recent grapes are top notch , they could be kept for a single quinta or colheita .

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:09 pm

From the article, it looks like those grapes would rather be used for Noval's new dry wines than for LBV.

Michael Ferrier · Post by **Michael Ferrier** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:24 pm

Andy has hit the nail on the head. Port is perhaps unique in that the same grapes can now be more profitably used, at the lower end at least, for making table wine rather than fortified wine (presumably this does not apply in Cognac, Armagnac or Madeira)
This has to be a worry as, if the lower end of the port market disappears, leaving only vintage, single quinta, colheita and possibly tawny, I fear that the demand for port may be adversely affected without a lower end to the market to get people interested.

Luc Gauthier · Post by **Luc Gauthier** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:49 am

As long as France , Belgium and Holland are around ( they make up 50 % of the Port market ) , the chances that the lower end bottoms out are very slim .
These countries import more Standard Ports than Premium Ports by far .

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:19 am

France Belgium and the Netherlands are half the world Port market!!! Those 3 countries drink as much as the rest of the world injcluding UK/US!
I'm not doubting you, I'm just amazed at that fact.

Alan.

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:28 am

Don't worry, Alan, they don't drink much of the good stuff - mainly cheap and nasty ruby and tawny.

Most of the good stuff comes here but more and more seems to find its way over the pond to be drunk in its infancy

Derek

PS: I have just thought of a new tagline for the FTLOP T-shirts:

PORT - don't let the good die young!

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:58 am

There's a little bit of a sub-plot here...

..Noval don't filter their LBV's

- but when did you last see an unfiltered LBV in the supermarkets?

The filtered LBV market is virtually monopolised by the Fladgate partnership and the Symingtons - if they can't set an adequate baseline for LBV pricing, then what's the point of those weekly dinners at the Factory House?

I think Seely is setting out his stall to convince people that there's a rational reason for launching his Noval table wines, and that they are worth paying a significant premium for.

Nowhere does the article mention the beneficio, which limits the amount of juice that can be fortified into port.

I suspect that for the most part, table wines are a required evil in the Douro - but if you can convince people that they're something special..

..well it's worth a try!

Tom

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:13 pm

..Noval don't filter their LBV's Salute - but when did you last see an unfiltered LBV in the supermarkets?

Actually quite often here in the states. Ramos Pinto Collector is an unfiltered premium ruby and can be found in a number of markets.

I suspect that for the most part, table wines are a required evil in the Douro - but if you can convince people that they're something special..

Tom, not sure how much Douro dry wine you've had, but I can assure you there is some great juice out there and by no means are they a required evil. IIRC, the Noval dry wines are to be priced under the $20-25 dollar mark. Not much for a good Douro dry wine.

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:34 pm

IIRC, the Noval dry wines are to be priced under the $20-25 dollar mark. Not much for a good Douro dry wine.

If they can get that sort of money, then fine, but most of the reds that hit the shelves here are less than half that - not much reward after you've paid UK taxes..!

Tom

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:52 pm

not much reward after you've paid UK taxes..!

Tom,

Its all about throwing some tea overboard

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:59 am

Coming back to the original subject of the thread, my understanding of the article was the Christian Seely was saying that none of the grapes from the new plantings would be going into LBV. Instead, these will be going into the Noval table wines.

I suspect that Tom has spotted the reason - or at least the partial reason - why this might be. We know that port producers and intermediaries are finding the market tough at the moment, early release prices do not seem to be supported by the resale auction market. This would lead me to expect that the IVDP is unlikely to be generous with increases in beneficio. There are many new vines being planted in the Douro (but I have no idea how many are new plantings and how many are replacement plantings) and if this is leading to an increase in grape production then these grapes have to go somewhere. Either they are crushed, fermented and fortified under the beneficio allowance, or crushed, fermented and distilled for brandy or they go into table wines.

From what I have seen, the beneficio allowances have a significant influence on port production but I do not have a clear idea of exactly what that influence is.

Alex

PS - time for some research into Tom's other question. I know I have seen unfiltered LBVs on the shelves in the UK, but I don't remember if this is in a supermarket or a specialist wine shop.

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:50 am

Sainsbury and Asda have Warre's Unfiltered LBV on their shelves almost permenantly - I have bought the 1992, 1994 and 1995 in the past couple of years from these supermarkets.

Noval LBV is sometimes stocked by Waitrose.

Sorry for getting in ahead of your research Alex :?

Derek

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:27 am

I've started to see more unfiltered LBVs on store shelves in the past couple of years than before. Not sure if they are becoming more popular where I live, or in the States as a whole. Or maybe producers are realizing there is a market for a good unfiltered LBV.

To me, It would make sense to put out an inexpensive unfiltered LBV to be that baby step to buying and drinking VP's.

Alex K. · Post by **Alex K.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:43 am

I've bought Warre's from Sainsbury's and, previously, from Safeway (Morrison's dropped it when they took over). I have some QD Noval from somewhere and Krohn from somewhere else.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:49 am

That Krohns 2001 LBV (unfiltered) is great. I got a case for about $12 a bottle, and that was retail here

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:54 am

I've just been in Morrison's and they are selling Cruz LBV 1999 at £6.99 a bottle. The label says "decant carefully as sediment may form in the bottle"

I am not sure if it says this because this is an unfiltered LBV or if it is that petrol floats to the top and purple ink sludge sinks to the bottom

I didn't buy any, best of luck to anyone who does

Derek

Alex K. · Post by **Alex K.** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:59 am

Andy V. wrote:That Krohns 2001 LBV (unfiltered) is great. I got a case for about $12 a bottle, and that was retail here

That's a lot cheaper than I paid.

Derek - be a good man and take one for the team.

Dave Johnson · Post by **Dave Johnson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:04 am

I've had the unfiltered Crasto 99 LBV a couple times and I can recommend it. But by comparison, the filtered Rocha 99 LBV was a simple ruby masquerading as an LBV in my opinion.