375ml vs. 750ml in Vintage Port

[Robert O.]

Hi,

My name is Bob and I am new to the forum. I am starting to collect vintage ports. Unfortunatley, I am the only one I know who really enjoys a nice glass of port. Given the relatively short life span of vintage port once opened, the 375ml format makes more sense for me as I will, in most instances, be drinking alone.

Thus, I am wondering if there is a difference in the way vintage port ages in a 375ml bottle and the standard 750ml?

Any insight would be appreicated.

[Todd Pettinger]

Hi Bob, welcome to the forum!!

Yes, the 375 mL bottles do seem to age VP a bit faster than the 750mL or 1.5L magnums.

Even if you are the only one who presently enjoys Port, you may still want to consider purchasing 750 mL bottles to lay down for aging. These are, by far, the most popular format and therefore easiest to find in stores, online, in auction, etc. You may also find that people that do not appreciate the port now may 20 years from now when the VP is ready to drink. VP is also a different beast than a lot of the tawnies, rubies and LBVs that you may be drinking now. It is rich, complex and full of character not possessed by many other drinks, and a such may draw others to want to drink your VP.

Even if you end up being the only one consuming the 750s in the future, that just means more yummy port for you!! 8) 8)

It is also likely that if you are drinking a big declared vintage year that a lot of decanter time will not do bad things for the wine. If you have the self-restraint to not drain the entire decanter in one or two nights, then the port should still be fine a couple days later. Maybe not at it's peak, but definitely fine.

To demonstrate this longevity, check out the main forum for the TBs (Tasting Notes) You will see that many folks report that the older Vintages truly do get better at 24+ hours and can be okay for 36-48 hours.

Have fun browseing the forum, and good to have you here! :)

Todd

[Alan C.]

Bob,

Welcome aboard. Hope you hang around and share your experiences.
As Todd says, the vast majority are full size bottles, but go on Wine Searcher, and if your not too fussy, you will find lots of half bottle VP's.

Some of the other lads talk in terms of buying a full bottle, decanting half into a half bottle, which is T-Corked and put in the fridge to slow it down. You then drink the first half and have the second in a weeks time. Not a perfect solution, but if you can find two reasons to drink Port, a week apart, it sounds like a plan!

Alan

[Derek T.]

Bob,

Welcome.

I would not get too hung up on the 375ml's age faster theory. I think this would only come into play significantly if you were buying top class ports for very long term storage. I would suggest that the key is to not buy lots of bottles of the classics in this format as you will only ocassionally find an excuse to open one. However, buying 12 or 14 half bottles of something like Graham's Malvedos 1987 will give you something that you can pop open and enjoy at any time over the next 10 years. The fact that the development of the Malvedos 87 in 750ml's may be a year or two behind your 375's during that period is a bit of an irrelevance.

I would also say that I fully subscribe to Alan's suggestion on placing half of a 750ml in the fridge to slow down its development. Just make sure you use a 375ml bottle and fill right up into the nexk to minimise the amount of air in the bottle. When you open it 7 days later it will be near identical to the minute you uncorked the original bottle. Remember to decant for a while to let it come up to room temperature and open up a bit.

Derek

[Alex K.]

No - I'm Spartacus!

Sorry, wrong website.

Welcome aboard Sparty. I agree with you about the use of half bottles, I like them for home use because the good Lady KillerB will probably have one sip, say "prunes" or "mmmm Christmas" and that will be her done. However, I also have to say that you will be limiting yourself if you stick to halves, not because of the aging but due to limited availability. Take the 1987 halves of Single Quintas route for your short-term fix but get some full-size ones for the future, you'll never be sorry that you did.

[Robert O.]

Thanks for all of the advice. Another question: When people mention that the 375ml ages faster than the 750ml, does it just age FASTER, or does it age DIFFERENTLY?

What I am thinking now is that I will use the 375ml format to try some of the younger VP's so that I am not blowing lots of money drinking ports still in their infancy. This way I'll get to taste them and have some points of comparrison for later drinking without making huge investments.

I've gone ahead and ordered some bottles in both formats, mostly 750ml. I look forward to being an active member on these boards, although it may take me a little while to get up to speed!

Bob

[Todd Pettinger]

I've gone ahead and ordered some bottles in both formats, mostly 750ml. I look forward to being an active member on these boards, although it may take me a little while to get up to speed!

I guarantee it will happen very quickly Bob!

The point about being able to try younger VPs in 375s without having to break the bank for the large ones is a good point. If more were available around my neck of the woods, I would likely do the same, although, sadly, there are very limited supply of the 375s.

Todd

[Roy Hersh]

It seems like a good time to re-stir the hornets nest:

http://www.fortheloveofport.com/articles/a_500ml.htm

[Gary Banker]

In response to Roy's reference to the 500 ml bottles, I like the size, especially for port. I'm the only one in the family who drinks port and I don't drink so much at one time (I'm 60, and judging by the pictures, I'm a lot smaller than most of the forum members).

However, I wonder about the shippers making price increases that are less obvious because of the different bottle size. Blandy's 15-year malmsey has gone to a 500 ml bottle and it looks as though the unit price has increased a little.

Gary Banker

[Derek T.]

In response to Roy's reference to the 500 ml bottles, I like the size, especially for port. I'm the only one in the family who drinks port and I don't drink so much at one time (I'm 60, and judging by the pictures, I'm a lot smaller than most of the forum members).

However, I wonder about the shippers making price increases that are less obvious because of the different bottle size. Blandy's 15-year malmsey has gone to a 500 ml bottle and it looks as though the unit price has increased a little.

Gary Banker

Gary,

I agree with your point on the 500ml bottle - I can see the advantages in terms of volume and the solitary drinker but I have no doubt whatsoever that if the 500ml became a standard size it would represent an increase in price when compared to the 750ml.

Derek

PS: On the size thing - don't worry about being small - Andy V. is the guy at the very back of the boat with sunglasses on in my avatar - he is actually standing up and is only 26 inches high

[Roy Hersh]

I have no doubt whatsoever that if the 500ml became a standard size it would represent an increase in price when compared to the 750ml.

I would never want the 500 ml to replace the 750. However, I am very much in favor of the 500 ml replacing the 375, for Port and all wines.

[Derek T.]

Roy,

I don't think anyone suggested replacing the 750ml with a 500ml.

Also, whilst it may be your preference to buy 500ml rather than 375ml perhaps the consumer should have the choice. Why not have both?

Derek

[Todd Pettinger]

Derek,

I like the idea of the producer making all three available, but I would fear then that the price would surely increase, and would be justifiable as the producer would then have to stock three (or even four if they produce magnums as well) bottle sizes.

Todd

[Roy Hersh]

Derek,

In reality this all just hyperbole as the Port producers are not going to change from their 375 regime. I have discussed this with a number of them privately and was told just that. There is even less of a chance that they'd add a bottle size without removing one. The storage costs alone would outweigh the benefits.

[Robert O.]

Well, I must say that I am glad small formats exist, whether it be 375ml or a 500ml. It is allowing me to sample quite a bit more port than I otherwise would.

I have no doubt I will end up collecting 750ml bottles. Roy, your article about running our when you are only drinking a 375ml made me think of how dissapointed I usually am when I only order a split of wine; I usally want a little bit more. But the 375ml will give me a better sense of what I might like to own either tod rink now or hold for a while

[Andy Velebil]

Having had Port and wine from 375's and 500ml's, I can say I prefer the 500ml bottle. The 375 just never seems to have quite enough. I always seem to want or need one more glass or so. However, I would never want to lose the 750 regular bottle. Unfortunitly the 375 is here to stay, since that is the industry standard for almost all wines.

[Al B.]

Bob,

I'm going to add my welcome to you on the forum. Its good to have another port-lover join us.

I have the same problem as you do in that I other than losing one or two sips from my glass (often one by my 11 year old son and one by my wife), I am generally the only one who drinks port in our house.

But I still find the full 750ml bottle is a great size for me. One of the things that I find fascinating is to watch and observe the way the port changes over the period that it is in the decanter. Its not unusual for me to take 3-5 days to finish a bottle on my own and it will show very different characteristics over that time. Sometimes it is at its best on the first day and sometimes (less often) on the last day. I seem to find that the younger the wine, the more often I prefer it on days 3-5. I occasionally but rarely use the trick of storing half of the bottle in the fridge, usually only when drinking something 30+ years of age.

But I do like and buy half bottles (and personally hate the idea of replacing the half bottle size with a 50cl bottle). I find that a half bottle will last me 2 days and allows me to enjoy a wider variety of different ports. I have never really noticed a difference between the way a vintage port tastes when poured from a half compared to when it is poured from a full bottle. I've never tried one against the other, but I have had the same wine poured out of the different formats within a few months of each other.

And then, of course, you have the option of exploring wines that have had more time aging in oak barrels and are reputed to last longer once opened - Late Bottled Vintage wines, tawnies, colheitas and the like.

Most of all, welcome to the fascinating world of port.

Alex

[Guest]

375's seem (to me at least) to taste hotter than the 750 bottle. Not sure why this is, but maybe because the bottle warms up quicker than the 750. The larger the bottle, the better the port is in my book. I wish there were more magnums available. The mag's I have had have all been some of the best port I have tried.

On another note. I have decanted 750's into a 375 and capped it right away- the port stayed fine for some time... Having to search out 375's just because you a sole port drinker may be needless step. Pick up a Lustau 375 sherry bottle and just re-use it for port.

[Robert O.]

Thanks for the welcomes. I am pretty convinced at this point that I will generally stick with the 750ml, with only the occational 375ml to learn from. It occurs to me that the 375ml format will allow me to do some side-by-side tasting. As a newbie, this has some appeal as well.

Bob

[Derek T.]

Derek,

In reality this all just hyperbole as the Port producers are not going to change from their 375 regime. I have discussed this with a number of them privately and was told just that. There is even less of a chance that they'd add a bottle size without removing one. The storage costs alone would outweigh the benefits.

Time to resurrect an old thread on a subject that I know Roy has some strong views

I have noticed a proliferation of 50cl bottles in UK supermarkets. This all started with the very smartly packaged Warre's Otima 10 & 20 yr old tawnies but these are now also common across the Cockburn and Gilberts ranges and have now been adopted by Dow for their LBV. I am sure I have seen others but cannot recall the specific wines so won't speculate.

One of the points Roy makes in the above thread is that 50cl bottles would represent a price increase. That does seem to be true as the full price of the Dow LBV 04 in Tesco last week was £11 for a 50cl. That's the equivalent of £16.50 for a 75cl against a "norm" of around £13 for a big name filtered LBV. Tesco are currently punting the Dow at £5.49 in a pre-Christmas offer but it was selling at the higher price for a few weeks prior to that discount being applied.

I confess that I have not yet seen a 50cl bottle used for VP but is it now only a matter of time?

Derek