UK bottled versus portugal bottled port from the 60's

[Daniel Tisch]

Hi everyone. I was curious if anyone could shed any light on this. Ive noticed a few retailers are selling bottles of certain "top" vintage port producers from the 60's, where for the same producer, same vintage there is a bottle that is bottled locally in portugal and also one that is bottled in the UK (due to bottle import laws at the time that later changed).

My question is....for drinking purposes both near-term and also for long-term aging, is there any important difference between the two? is this a case of a clearcut preference for one bottling over the other?

If the portugal one is 20% more expensive, is this worth it?

thanks

[Marc J.]

O.K. - I'm going out on a limb here and this reflects my own personal preference, but if there is a U.K. bottled port & a Oporto bottled port side by side (assuming there are in the same condition) I'll generally go for the Oporto bottled port. From my experience there is much more bottle variation in U.K. bottled port than in port bottled in Oporto. With that being said, I'm not sure that the Oporto bottlings justify a 20% premium, especially if the U.K. bottling was by one of the larger houses (Berry Bros., Avery, ect). Just my two cents.....

Marc

[Al B.]

I tend to agree with Marc on this one, but only to a certain extent. Back in the middle of last century, (say the 1930s-70s) some of the Portuguese bottling plants had difficulties in producing consistent quality of bottlings. Among the lesser houses, this means that you can experience quite a bit of bottle variation on these Oporto bottlings.

On the other hand, there were some shocking bottles filled in the UK by some of the smaller UK wine merchants. However, there were also some UK merchants whose bottlings are recognised as being at least as good as an Oporto bottling, if not better. One such merchant is Berry Brothers.

If I'm given a choice between bottlings, I will generally look at the merchant who did the UK bottling and then shrug, and buy the cheapest.

Alex

[Andy Velebil]

There was a thread on this not too long ago HERE . It listed the more reputable UK bottlers. Basically, as long as its from a reputable UK bottler then you should be fine.

One of the more important things is to trust your retailer and find out where they are getting the bottles. As storage over the past 30+ years is the biggest issue when buying older bottles.

[Derek T.]

I can only think of 1 specific VP that I have tasted a number of times that would give an element of direct eperience to this thread. Sandeman 1963.

I have had this 5 times in recent memory. 2 Oporto bottled and 3 UK bottled. There was distinct bottle variation between the 3 UK bottles but all of them were vastly superior to the 2 Oporto bottles.

I cannot claim that this proves a point across the board but it does illustrate that Oporto bottling is not always best.

As another guide, the three best bottles of port I have ever had - 1 x 63 and 2 x 66 Fonseca were all UK bottled.

Derek

[Todd Pettinger]

I can only think of 1 specific VP that I have tasted a number of times that would give an element of direct eperience to this thread. Sandeman 1963.

I have had this 5 times in recent memory. 2 Oporto bottled and 3 UK bottled. There was distinct bottle variation between the 3 UK bottles but all of them were vastly superior to the 2 Oporto bottles.

I cannot claim that this proves a point across the board but it does illustrate that Oporto bottling is not always best.

As another guide, the three best bottles of port I have ever had - 1 x 63 and 2 x 66 Fonseca were all UK bottled.

Derek

I would suspect that even if you did not intend to prove a point here Derek, you may have done just that.

If you take a long, hard think on the topic, which I have never spared more than 2 second's worth of thought on prior to today because A) we don't EVER see UK-bottlings here in Canada (okay, I haven't - I'm sure Fred or Luc have but I couldn't even be sure as I am sure the SAQ would not be bringing in too many UK-bottled VPs from the 60s or earlier,) I would point out that of all the world, who has some of the most "refined" VP drinkers? The UK. Certainly at the age we are talking about (50s, 60s, etc) I am sure that many of the larger houses, as inferred to by Alex farther up in the thread, had very good procedures for bottling. I would suspect that many of them would have had superior bottling techniques to the Oporto houses that would have been doing it.

Here's why I suspect this to be the case:
technology and passion

The UK has always been one of the world's leaders in wine and Port consumption, I don't think this is up for debate. Because of this, the retailers of the day would have had a lot at stake when putting their names on a label of a bottle that contains some of the finest Vintage Port in the world. Knowing how seriously the English take tradition and wine, with reputations at stake, I suspect nothing less than the very best technology would have been used at the time, with the utmost care being given to the process.

Money would also come into play (as always.) Hell, regions of Portugal have just recently gotten electricity. Portugal, from my studies and investigation into the subject in recent times, was not a rich country in past history. It stands to reason that corners MAY have been cut for the sake of finances. Even if corners were not cut often or with enough significance to affect the wine, perhaps the difference in financial backing between Portuguese bottlers and English companies could produce better equipment from the UK bottlers.

Or maybe I've just had a bit too much of this Portal White Port tonight, which is very nice for a sweeter white Port.

This is the way I see it tonight - I may reread this tomorrow morning and change my mind!

Todd