Q's about LBV decanting, recent Crusteds, & ordering from EU

[Lucas S]

Hello folks, I'm enjoying reading the old threads here and have a few questions that I haven't found answers to.

1. How long should do you decant a typical new 6-7 year old LBV?
I know this answer may vary depending on tannins etc, but I'm looking for a generic answer for a young LBV whose properties are unknown.

2. Have you ordered from Portugal Vineyards or Garrafeira Nacional (or recommend other good PT retailers) to deliver to the US? If so, does that go smoothly? Are there surprise tax or delivery issues? Or have you found it better to order from UK distributors which seem to have a ton of cases.

3. What are some tasty Crusted ports from past 12y that present good value and have solid long-term potential?

4. Would you agree with the statement that Single Quinta VPs are akin to Single Malt scotches in that they have greater variance; and therefore, more upside as well as downside?

[Eric Ifune]

I've purchased from both Garrafeira Nacional and Portugal Vineyards. It takes several months for delivery, probably because lots seem to be delivered to a central export site somewhere in Europe and they wait until they get to a certain volume. It's not cheap, up to 20 or more euros/bottle. They don't guarantee delivery. That said, I had a good experience with 6 bottles from each. I'd definitely ship in early winter.

[Mike J. W.]

For brand spanking new LBV's or ones that are a few years old, I would decant 10 to 12 hours. I decant 20 year old LBV's for about 8 hours. Anything from the 90's or older I decant 4 to 6 hours depending upon it's age.

[Glenn E.]

LBVs generally do not need as much decant time as VPs because of the extra wood aging that they receive. They're made to be easier to drink earlier.

That said, for an unfiltered LBV I'd probably still decant for a fairly long time. Somewhere in the 8-12 hour range should do it, but what you'll want to do is check on it periodically to see how it's doing. When it seems basically ready, put it back in the bottle and pop it in the fridge until it's time to drink it.

A filtered LBV (which is assumed to be any LBV that doesn't say Unfiltered on the label) is fine with 4-6 hours of decant time upon release. After a few years of bottle age, 2-3 hours will usually suffice in my experience.

Sorry, can't help you with #2 or #3.

I would not equate SQVPs with single malt scotch, mostly because single malt scotch is generally considered a premium scotch, while SQVPs are usually offered in years that are not generally declared. They're often superb, but they're generally considered to be a lesser product to a fully-declared Vintage Port. (There are exceptions, of course.) That's why they're usually less expensive than a fully-declared Vintage Port, and all of this put together means that SQVPs are very often excellent value for your money. They're often just as good as a regular Vintage Port, but because they're perceived to be a lesser product they're usually less expensive. Sometimes significantly less expensive. (Think $60 to $65 instead of $85 to $100 for new releases.)

[Frederick Blais]

Hello folks, I'm enjoying reading the old threads here and have a few questions that I haven't found answers to.

1. How long should do you decant a typical new 6-7 year old LBV?
I know this answer may vary depending on tannins etc, but I'm looking for a generic answer for a young LBV whose properties are unknown.

2. Have you ordered from Portugal Vineyards or Garrafeira Nacional (or recommend other good PT retailers) to deliver to the US? If so, does that go smoothly? Are there surprise tax or delivery issues? Or have you found it better to order from UK distributors which seem to have a ton of cases.

3. What are some tasty Crusted ports from past 12y that present good value and have solid long-term potential?

4. Would you agree with the statement that Single Quinta VPs are akin to Single Malt scotches in that they have greater variance; and therefore, more upside as well as downside?

1- If the LBV is unfiltered, I would decant 2-3 hours. But it matters less than VP, you can simply decant and pour as well.
2-If you are interested, I work for Quevedo in Portugal, it would be only our wines/Ports but we deliver to US within a month with garanteed delivery and no extra cost beside what we charge you for shipping.
3-Niepoort is doing an excellent Crusted and huge QPR. I've enjoyed Quevedo's one a lot as well. Fonseca's released one 8 years ago or so for a celebration, excellent!
4-I don't agree. Single Quinta are rarely released in the best years as their best grapes in Vintage year are going towards the main blend. To validate that, we would have to be able to taste side by side in great years. Recently some Quintas have released some small high quality single Quinta Port wines : Vargellas Vinha Velha, Capela from Vesuvio, Malvedos Stone Terraces and Niepoort Bioma. Of course these Ports are all amazing but also produced in such a scale that you almost babysit each berries. With Vintage Port, it takes time to validate your work as well.

I once opened Vargellas VV and Taylor's 1997 side by side. It was with Dirk back at my place in Montreal. We both agreed that the Vargellas was much sexier and interesting to drink ''now'' but the Taylor's had more potential to go for the long run.

[Lucas S]

Thank you for all the fantastic responses.

I'm very happy I found this forum and can share in the profound experience of you fine folks here.

I'll give 10 hours a go for the unfiltered LBVs. And as for the Quevedos, that is very good to know as well; may split a case sometime with the locals as Quevedos do seem a bit hard to come by in the US.

[John M.]

Quevedo is somewhat available in PA State Stores.

[Moses Botbol]

Very few single quinta vintage ports live up to their declared vintage counterparts. The blend and selection may be the reason? For single quinta vp's, I like Ferreira's the most. I'd go for a top LBV or crusted vs. a SQ port if similarly priced. Not talking about the fancy single quinta sutff.

[Jonathan S]

They don't guarantee delivery.

Yikes! I had considered ordering from each vendor in the past. In light of this new information, I'm glad that I didn't take the chance.

[Jonathan S]

4. Would you agree with the statement that Single Quinta VPs are akin to Single Malt scotches in that they have greater variance; and therefore, more upside as well as downside?

Welcome to the wonderful world of Port, Lucas!

Adding to the excellent information provided by other members, I wanted to state that both Quinta do Noval and Quinta do Vesuvio are notable exceptions to the general rule that SQVP is lesser in quality than non-SQVP. (You likely already have deduced this in your quest to learn more about Port, but just in case...)

[Eric Ifune]

They don't guarantee delivery.

Yikes! I had considered ordering from each vendor in the past. In light of this new information, I'm glad that I didn't take the chance.

Yes, I think it's a risk, but I ordered things completely unavailable in the States. Worth the risk for me, and I got everything fine. It's the vendors who don't guarantee, don't know about the 3rd party shippers.

[Tom Archer]

Lucas,

LBVs are a bit of a minefield, it's hard to give generic answers about serving them.

Some are sold as unfiltered, some are not sold as unfiltered yet age very well; some have T stoppers, some have driven corks. As a general rule, bottles supplied with driven corks are expected by the producer to age to advantage, but there are some unfiltered LBVs marketed with T stoppers..

The oddest thing about LBVs is the way both the Symingtons, and the Taylor Fladgate partnership, trawl the gutter of the LBV market with their crown jewel brand, Graham and Taylor slugging it out on the UK supermarket shelves.

Sandeman, after neglecting the UK market for many years, has come back in with a quality LBV sold in whisky tubes, which in presentation terms (to my mind) steals a march on the boxes used by the others.

Whilst Warre is also a very good player, there are many very sound LBVs amongst the less well known names. Recent good encounters in this camp include Andresen and Senhora do Convento.

As for serving, if its a young freshly released offering I simply pop and pour. Older ones I decant, but there's no hard and fast formula for decant times, you just have to suck it and see!

[Glenn E.]

Sandeman, after neglecting the UK market for many years, has come back in with a quality LBV sold in whisky tubes, which in presentation terms (to my mind) steals a march on the boxes used by the others.

Is this what you mean by a whiskey tube? (It's new to Graham for the 2017 LBV as far as I know.)

https://www.symington.com/blog/graham-s ... -tubes/850

[Mike J. W.]

Sandeman, after neglecting the UK market for many years, has come back in with a quality LBV sold in whisky tubes, which in presentation terms (to my mind) steals a march on the boxes used by the others.

Is this what you mean by a whiskey tube? (It's new to Graham for the 2017 LBV as far as I know.)

https://www.symington.com/blog/graham-s ... -tubes/850

I thought the '15 had tubes as well?

[Mike J. W.]

...The oddest thing about LBVs is the way both the Symingtons, and the Taylor Fladgate partnership, trawl the gutter of the LBV market with their crown jewel brand, Graham and Taylor slugging it out on the UK supermarket shelves...

Could it be that they're trying to hook consumers at the low price point to incent them to move up the price chain later?

[Tom Archer]

Could it be that they're trying to hook consumers at the low price point to incent them to move up the price chain later?

Whilst getting your brand name 'out there' is important, how you do so is also important.

Both companies are approaching generational handover points and both have UK agents who seem less than energised. Sooner or later one of them will realise that there are opportunities for better UK market image.

[Glenn E.]

Sandeman, after neglecting the UK market for many years, has come back in with a quality LBV sold in whisky tubes, which in presentation terms (to my mind) steals a march on the boxes used by the others.

Is this what you mean by a whiskey tube? (It's new to Graham for the 2017 LBV as far as I know.)

https://www.symington.com/blog/graham-s ... -tubes/850

I thought the '15 had tubes as well?

Possibly? I bought a case that came with no tubes, but that might have been a concession to shipping implemented by the store without consulting with me first. I would have agreed as I have no use for the tubes, but they didn't ask so I assumed they were sold without tubes.

[Lucas S]

"First presented in 2020 as a celebration of Graham’s Bicentenary with the commemorative 2015 LBV"

So they both nominally have tubes. That said, I bought the 2017 LBV at Total Wine with no tube in sight.

[Lucas S]

Quick random question:

If I see a bottle of 20 YO Tawny at auction and there is a significant amount of sediment showing in the pictured neck, is that something best avoided? I thought tawnies weren't really supposed to leave a sediment.


edit:
While I'm asking questions, what are some of the best years for Colheita in the past 50? Do Colheitas show similarly to VP with respect to climate? Are they like VPs that tend to like those dry, hot years or do they like those more fertile years?

[Tom Archer]

If I see a bottle of 20 YO Tawny at auction and there is a significant amount of sediment showing in the pictured neck, is that something best avoided? I thought tawnies weren't really supposed to leave a sediment.

I regard that as a very good sign - not a bad one. The main killer of tawnies is excessive fining and filtration.

A good tawny mellows with age in bottle, throwing a little gritty sediment as it does so, but if it's been over processed before bottling, it tends to fall apart.