For The Love Of Port

In a handful of posts on the recent drinking thread there was an exchange of posts about Vintage Ports in the 1980s.

One question which was asked was why is there so much focus on what was made by the Symingtons and the Fladgate Partnership.

That led me to thinking - if someone asked me to recommend, say, 5 Ports from the 1980s not made by SFE or by TFP what would I suggest?

Thoughts and ideas?

1980 Niepoort
1985 Calem
1982 Sandeman
1985 Ferreira
1983 Cockburn (ok, a non corked bottle)

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 3:19 pm 1980 Niepoort
1985 Calem
1982 Sandeman
1985 Ferreira
1983 Cockburn (ok, a non corked bottle)

Does such a bottle exist?

Mike J. W. wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 3:19 pm 1980 Niepoort
1985 Calem
1982 Sandeman
1985 Ferreira
1983 Cockburn (ok, a non corked bottle)

Does such a bottle exist?

I’ve actually had one.

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 6:40 pm

Mike J. W. wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 3:19 pm 1980 Niepoort
1985 Calem
1982 Sandeman
1985 Ferreira
1983 Cockburn (ok, a non corked bottle)

Does such a bottle exist?

I’ve actually had one.

I'm 0-2 with 2 bottles to go.

Mike J. W. wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 8:10 pm

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 6:40 pm

Mike J. W. wrote:
Does such a bottle exist?

I’ve actually had one.

I'm 0-2 with 2 bottles to go.

All of my bottles have been great!

But seriously, others have been present and have said they weren't corked. Most of them, at least. I suspect I'm probably something like 6 out of 8 have been great. At one point we came up with the theory that they're drinkable at start and then the TCA starts to build, so it's also possible that a couple of the 6 "good" bottles might have been corked had we given them enough time for it to show.

But Cockburn doesn't count because it's (now) owned by SFE.

My list would be:

1983 Ramos Pinto
1980 Ferreira
probably 1982 Ramos Pinto
maybe 1985 Churchill

That's it. I can't find anything else in my notes that consistently rates Excellent (91-93) or better. And I'm really only confident with the 1983 Ramos Pinto. The 1982 Ramos Pinto is mostly based on reputation.

I wanted to add the 1987 Porto Souza, but while I have rated it in the low 90s, I've also rated it in the high 80s. Similar story for the 1985 Churchill. Even the 1980 Ferreira feels like a risky pick. I've very much enjoyed it every time I've had it, but it's such a different Port that I'm not sure anyone else would enjoy it as much as I have.

I'm also assuming that Alex meant Vintage Port, otherwise 1987 Niepoort Garrafeira would be at the top of the list. I've only had it twice that I can recall, and gave it 97 points both times. It is spectacular... but it's also $600/bottle!

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 3:19 pm 1980 Niepoort
1982 Sandeman

Based on your notes in the TNDB, both of these feel like a stretch.

(Okay, okay, you've probably had them more often than what's listed in the TNDB.)

Glenn E. wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 3:19 pm 1980 Niepoort
1982 Sandeman

Based on your notes in the TNDB, both of these feel like a stretch.

(Okay, okay, you've probably had them more often than what's listed in the TNDB.)

Yes I have. And even Dirk said it wasn’t showing well for that note. And it still got 90 points then.

Being a mature port means it can’t be recommended? I’m confused.

I think you can count the Cockburn since it wasn't owned by the Symingtons back in 1985 when it was bottled. It's tough coming up with a list of good 80's era Ports without mentioning the Symington brands or TFP's. I could only come up with four off the top of my head that I really liked:

1982 Ramos Pinto (excellent)
1983 Ramos Pinto (same)
1985 Ferreira
1987 Ferreira

Maybe when I open my lone bottle of 1982 Niepoort it will join the list. That or my 1982 Champalimaud Quinta do Cotto

There are a lot of Ports being suggested that I've not tasted very often - I think I've had Niepoort 1980 twice, it impressed me once and had TCA the other time.

Cockburn 1983 I'd never recommend to someone, probably the opposite. I've given up opening bottles of this now, I'm 3 for 6 but even the ones without TCA I think might have been slightly tainted as the wine has never shown as well as I hear it can.

1985 Calem is a lovely wine, one which I enjoy drinking and good be a good bet for someone born in 1985. It's not a bad wine (although I have had 1 out of 11 that was corked).

I've only had 1985 Ferreira once, and that was another nice wine. 1982 Sandeman is another reliable and tasty wine.

Ramos Pinto 1983 I've had frequently since they used to serve it by the glass in the tasting room - every time I was in Gaia I'd call in and have a glass. It's delicious. A great call. I actually prefer the 1982 (which was the by-the-glass offer in the tasting room when I was there last year). Both would be great calls for a non-SFE / non-TFP recommendation list.

1985 Churchill is another one which bothers me. I've had too many bottles which were spoiled by VA. Happily, I've not had any spoiled bottles of Churchill 1982 - that might make my list.

Ferreira 1985 I've had only once. That was by the glass from somewhere I didn't make a note of. I liked it, thought it was nice, but didn't get wowed by it.

This was much tougher than I thought it was going to be, but I came up with a list quite consistent with other people. My list is:

Niepoort 1987
Ramos Pinto 1982
Feuerheerd 1983
Niepoort 1983
Offley 1980

And maybe I'd try to squeeze Martinez 1985 in my list.

1980, 83, 85 Ramos Pinto
1985 Noval
1980, 83, 85 Ferreira

Andy Velebil wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 3:19 pm 1980 Niepoort
1982 Sandeman

Based on your notes in the TNDB, both of these feel like a stretch.

(Okay, okay, you've probably had them more often than what's listed in the TNDB.)

Yes I have. And even Dirk said it wasn’t showing well for that note. And it still got 90 points then.

Being a mature port means it can’t be recommended? I’m confused.

No, just that your only notes for these two in the TNDB were all scored in the 80s.

1983 Ramos Pinto has showed well for me many times. I can't say I've had the 1982.
1985 Kopke VP also scored well, but I only have one TN for it; so I can't really comment on consistency.

Glenn E. wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote:

Glenn E. wrote: Based on your notes in the TNDB, both of these feel like a stretch.

(Okay, okay, you've probably had them more often than what's listed in the TNDB.)

Yes I have. And even Dirk said it wasn’t showing well for that note. And it still got 90 points then.

Being a mature port means it can’t be recommended? I’m confused.

No, just that your only notes for these two in the TNDB were all scored in the 80s.

I was a little stingier back then.

I brought a bottle of 1985 Kopke to the Chicago tasting a few years back. It was past peak, and a bit cloying.

Elsewhere, I remember the 1985 Burmester was a decent VP with persimmon notes!