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Derek T.
Posts: 4080
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:02 pm
Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom - UK
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Website User Stats

Post by Derek T. »

Following on from Roy's commercialisation thread, I had a look at some of the stats on the Memberlist page. Interesting to note the following:

Out of 235 Registered Users:

>> 81 have never posted a message on the Forum :cry:

>> 112 have posted between 1 and 10 messages :(

>> 30 users (13%) are responsible for 81% of all messages posted

>> 10 users (4%) are responsible for 56% of all messages posted

>> 3 users (1%) are responsible for 31% of all messages posted

It looks like we have lots of registered members who perhaps enjoy reading the threads on the forum but are not inclined to contribute themselves. It would be very interesting to know why this is.

If anyone reading this feels like responding to this question but not in public then feel free to send me an e-mail and I will post your views or pass them onto Roy without revealing your name.

Derek
D. Pirmann
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:03 am
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, United States of America - USA

Post by D. Pirmann »

Speaking for myself, I am a real Port neophyte. I can count the number of vintage ports I have tasted on one hand and my sensory tasting ability (i..e to identify all the various flavors) is really poor (this goes for all wine not just Port. It's hard for me to identify flavors.) I come here to learn but I do not have much of value to contribute given the expertise of the more frequent posters. Probably others are in the same boat. Port's an expensive "hobby" and this board is an inexpensive way to enjoy a part of it, if you see what I mean...
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Derek T.
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Post by Derek T. »

Thanks for the honest reply - I'm sure if more do the same then Roy can begin to understand the demographic he is reaching on this site which will inform his decisions on how best to take it forward and expand it's use

If it is any comfort to you, I have probably only tasted around 30 vintage ports in my life (14 of them at a tasting with Roy in London 8 weeks ago) and am unable to compose detailed tasting notes as I cannot find the words to describe what I taste in a way that would mean anything to anyone. I know if the wine tastes of fruit, vinegar, alcohol etc to varying degrees but "crushed loganberries with a hint of mint and an air of coal dust" are beyond my palate! If I like it, I like it, if I don't, I don't. Others can provide this insight and I therefore leave it to them to comment.

Derek
xxxMonique Heinemans
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:09 am
Location: the Netherlands

Post by xxxMonique Heinemans »

I do have the same "temporary? problem" as Dave, untill now I've tasted perhaps 10 VP's in my life and 20 or so different colheita's, LBV's and older tawny's.
So in my opinion I don't have so much to contribute.
The second problem is that I really can judge for myself what Port I do like and what port I like less, but I find it very hard to discribe to other people. For instance, all those berry's.....
My thirt problem is my English. I do speak and understand quiet a bit, but when it comes to "technical" language, I fail. You should see me sitting here sometimes with my dictionary....

But I love to read all your contributions!

Monique.
Frederick Blais
Posts: 2708
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:07 am
Location: Porto, Portugal

Post by Frederick Blais »

There is 2 kind of person that generate activities on web forums:

1st: The one who knows a lot. They write tasting notes, gives recommendation and try to answer 2nd kind question. They know a lot and are not very curious. So they Post a lot but their post do not generate a lot of interactivity. 10-20% of the community.

2nd: These are the most important. Because your lack of knowledge is very valuable. They are those who need to ask the questions everyone fear asking, even the experts. It is because of you that some curious folk will search books or web trying to give you the best answer and then generate a debate over the subject. Don't be shy, for every question you should ask there is hundreds of people who don't.

For the language problem, myself too don't speak English as a primary language but I try just to make sure people understand me. Of course I'd like to have Roy's nice pen when its time to write tasting notes, but as long as I get understand, others will benefit from it.

So don't be shy to ask any question, even if you think it is rediculous, often it generates the best debates.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
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Andy Velebil
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Location: Los Angeles, California, United States of America - USA
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Post by Andy Velebil »

I too am not that great at describing all the flavors in a wine or port. I am getting better with time, but no where near the level of some here. I also have not had that many VP's, maybe about 12 total. I've been lucky in that about half of those were from the 1920's to 1960's.

But what I have found is that on this site I am not afraid to post on things and just tell people if I liked it or not. I've said this before, this is the only wine site I have visited or participated in where the members did not talk down to others for what they posted on. As someone said in an earlier thread, maybe it is because port drinkers are a bit more civilized!

As far as the English issue. Having grown up in the US English is my first and primary language and I still have problems with it at times. So please don't let that stop you from posting.

I would love to hear from all the members on what ever kind of port, madeira, or douro red wine that they try. Even if it is a short and simple "hey I had this and liked / not liked it." I can guarantee that someone, somewhere out there has thought about getting the same bottle of port that you just tried and they would love to hear if it was good or not. So, I ask all of you here, PLEASE POST ON ALL THAT YOU TRY.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Roy Hersh
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Post by Roy Hersh »

It is really nice when the folks of this community feel safe enough to admit when they don't know something. I always try to mention when I have NOT tasted a wine or Port and therefore at best can give some comparative analysis, but not specific impressions of that wine. On other boards, folks have too much ego to admit when they have not had a wine, and I can sometimes tell when someone is making something up ... especially when Port related.

That said, without novices willing to take chances and trusting the members of this Forum to be supportive of their inexperience, this will quickly become a very boring place. I know that although the frequent posters here seem to number just a few, there is a vast number of people who are "silent majority" and don't yet feel comfortable in posting. I multiply that number by 10 to realize how many folks are reading this website who have never even signed up on the Forum.

Many are from the Port trade, lots are other beginners who prefer to lurk and there are some who choose not to post because they are involved in the wine business or other ventures where they don't want their names "held responsible." I have heard this from Mark Squires and also Robin Garr, both of whom moderate very successful wine message boards.

Regardless, I am very pleased with where we are at today, a few days short of 5 months on line. As you've heard me mention, in the coming months we are going to be modifying some things here with upgrades in technology (ie. searchable database etc.) as well as promotion ... that should make this an even better place to visit.

The real key is for us to bring folks into the fold and be welcoming when we do have new folks post. Be quick to respond to new names and provide them with warm and friendly responses. I love that there really is none of the snipe and chiding that goes on in other forums. This is a very friendly place and in time, those that are now just "lurkers" will gain the knowledge and experience ... even slowly ... so that at some point they too will join us.

One IMPORTANT last thing. No matter at what level of experience we are at, you don't need to form tasting notes that include what you smell and what you taste. For example, to pass a MW or Master's of Wine practical exam, you must be able to explain the organoleptic ... aka "sensorial" qualities of a wine.

So instead of a TN consisting of: Aromas of scintillating violets that were freshly picked, with zesty orange peel and cardamon spice ... with flavors of blackberry, a touch of vanilla and mocha on the finish .... yada yada yada.

Great if you really can do that but that is not what will pass an MW exam or make you a better taster or tasting note writer.

Here is a TN that will, and it could be done by an expert or a rank beginner: I really liked this wine because it had a really full body and seemed heavy on my palate and filled with fruit. It seemed young by looking at the color and because there was so much fruit up front. It smelled great and I loved keeping my nose in the glass. When I swallowed the last sip, the flavors kept on coming to remind me how much I liked this.

Now which would you rather read? Sensorial impressions win out for me every time. The former tasting note, is puffery, very much more subjective, could apply to many wines, and tells us little about how this will age, what it was really like etc. I call them "pantry filled" tasting notes, but they leave me cold ... UNLESS they are blended in with the sensorial facets of the wine, which even a first time taster can perceive.

Just my two cents. Thanks for a great topic!
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
simon Lisle
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 am
Location: Newcastle, United Kingdom - UK

Post by simon Lisle »

I have drank a lot of bottles of vp over the years but not collected or made tasting notes,My father started me off as a teenager drinking port and I have one of his vps left a Croft 77.The rest I've bought over the last ten years my knowledge is fairly limited about shippers growers and history.To be honest wine is what I know most about but the port bug has gotten hold of me fueled by this forum.I'm now trying many types of port not just vp.I will be having a small tasting over Christmas with some oddments I have and I will need help selecting which order to drink them as I've only ever opened two bottles in one night before.I will post them up and let the forum decide which one's and the order.
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Al B.
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Location: Wokingham, United Kingdom - UK

Post by Al B. »

Dave - thanks for the message that sparked off the thoughts and discussion. It made me think back to the time that I first became hooked on port. That was 12 years ago - I know that because my wife and I went on a summer holiday cruise up the Douro River in August 1993 and 5 months later my daughter was born. I had a great holiday - my wife is still sulking that I got to taste all her port and she got to taste lots of different types of water :)

I don't know what made us decide to visit the Douro since neither of us were port drinkers at that time, no were either of us really serious wine drinkers. We enjoyed wine but had never tried port. I think it was probably the scenery and rugged look of the area. Most of our holidays at that time had been a little off the beaten track (now, with young children, they tend to be much less exciting). The idea of a cruise up the Douro on a boat that had to be dismantled every time it went under one of the bridges was quite appealing.

The result of that holiday is that we came back hooked, me more than my wife. The first bottle of VP I ever tasted was a bottle of 1979 Malvedos - a bottle which still sits on my display shelf. We drank it with a couple of friends who we made on the cruise at a party one night. That was it. I was hooked and have been ever since.

Until Roy started up this forum, I don't think I have ever posted a tasting note of a wine that I have drunk. I used to keep my own notes on a spreadsheet, so I have a record going back about 5 years of the wines I have drunk and what I thought of them. Over those 5 years I have gone from writing "Nice wine, bit too sharp to be really good. Don't repeat." to the sort of tasting notes that Roy has just said turn him off. In these, I'm trying to capture and describe what the wine tastes like as well as what I thought of the wine. I'm always interested in learning and will reflect on what Roy has said and will try to adapt my next tasting note to better interest others when they make their decision on what to buy or drink or to expect when they open their wine. I know that I'm not particularly good at tasting or describing what I taste (and have met some people on this site who I would say are VERY good at it), but what the heck. If it helps or interests others, then I'll do what I can. Perhaps I'll make up in enthusiasm what others have as natural ability.

Again, until Roy opened this forum and website I had never really followed how a port changes over time in the decanter. Now I am fascinated by the difference in flavour and balance over a 3-4 day period. When is the wine at its best? I love the fact that what I really like, another person can just say "Ummm" and move on to what they really like. I am also stunned by the way a wine changes flavour when you take a mouthful - how does it feel when it first goes into your mouth? What is the next thing that hits your tastebuds? What happens next? What happens when you swallow?

I guess I own up to being one of the most frequent posters on the forum. I do that for three reasons:
1) A few years ago I decided that life was too short to be able to try and taste everything so I decided to concentrate on port wines
2) This is a supportive forum and people are genuinely interested in the opinions and thoughts of others
3) I am full of enthusiasm at having found a forum focussed only on the one wine I am really interested in.

I read what people post here quite frequently and often find myself learning and suddenly thinking "Oh, I never thought of that". I am interested in reading what people think of all different variations of port and welcome people posting notes on the wines that they have drunk - whatever variation of port that might be. I have been given a bottle of Cockburn's Finest Reserve port for Christmas this year. I have never tried this wine before and would love to read a tasting note on it. At some point, I will search the site for a tasting note, but I don't recall having seen one. If anyone has tasted this wine and would like to tell me what to expect, please do. I don't care if the tasting note you post is as brief as "Horrible, never again" or as long as one of my "pantry pufferies" - although something in between would be great :D :D

Port can be an expensive hobby, but, for me, I don't think it is much more expensive that wine. I find that I drink less port than I would wine so instead of spending £5 each on two bottles of wine, I will spend £10 on a bottle of port. I also echo what everyone has said in this thread so far - I am interested in what you write and what you think about a wine. I have seen that a lot of people don't have English as their first language - and I don't care. I'm very grateful that people like Fred and Monique are kind enough to post here in English. I value what they have to say and have no problem with any errors that might be made - it is their thoughts on their experiences that I am interested in.

So anyone out there thinking of posting, please do. Anyone out there who wants to post but isn't too sure of what or how to say things and would like to talk it over first, then please feel free to send me a private message. I would be more than happy to help "behind the scenes".

I really enjoy this forum and would love to see it flourish and grow. Thanks to everyone who posts, everyone who reads and everyone who watches the conversations. Most of all, thanks to Roy and Stewart for making this all happen.

Alex
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Roy Hersh
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Post by Roy Hersh »

Thanks Alex.

There is no better way to hone your tasting notes than to post them on line and have others then chip in with their thoughts. Again, nothing wrong with the "pantry" type of note IF IT IS COMBINED WITH impressions that touch the senses reaction to the color, aroma, body weight, mouthfeel, flavor profile, balance or lack thereof, complexity, acidity and tannic structure and the finish/aftertaste of the Port. Together these two distinct styles make for fascinating reads.

I suggest to everyone who wants to improve their ability to taste wine, Port or otherwise to buy a simple to read and excellent book called: HOW TO TASTE by the brilliant author, Jancis Robinson. Although somewhat basic, it takes you on a step by step journey through the process and is a great brush up and reminder of specific skills even for the most ardent aficionado.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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