Do you shy away from buying "leakers" ...

[Roy Hersh]

... from auctions or from on-line retailers?

I'd love to know if Port enthusiasts typically find that "leakers" still drink well or if a past experience has literally left a bad taste in your mouth and you find that you now avoid those bottles?

[Eric Ifune]

Depends on the type of wine and the type of leakage. I've noticed that even well stored bottles of dessert wines often have a syrup-like leakage which doesn't affect the wine. I've been told this has to do with the relative viscosities of the liquid due to the sugar content. This appears like a few drops of thick treacle under the capsule. If the level is good, I'd still accept the bottle.
Table wines are another story. I'd be more concerned especially if the label is stained. Sparging and overfill of bottles when filling occur before the label is applied.
If the levels are low, I'd shy away from any bottle.
Just my 2cents.

[Roy Hersh]

"I'd shy away from any bottle."

Even Madeira? :help:

[David Spriggs]

Only when the price is right - which means a serious discount. In general, I stay away from leakers. Of course Port and espcially Madeira are heartier than other wines - they are unlikely to be totally dead. But still - My experience is that leakers *always* are more advanced than perfect bottles. I always drink any leakers that I find before opening perfect bottles.

-Dave-

[Andy Velebil]

i also generally avoid leakers, unless the its a super great deal. And even then the fill has to be very good for its relative age. In my experience, slight leakers of Port with good fills have sometimes shown very nicely and a couple even great, but some have also been DOA. Its a gamble that I gnerally don't care to take.

[Glenn E.]

Given the choice I won't buy a leaker, but sometimes you don't really have a choice.

I chalk that up to my general inexperience with Port, though. I just don't know enough about it yet to be able to evaluate bottles by looking at them. One that has leaked clearly has SOMETHING wrong with it, so until I feel comfortable judging whether it was overfilled or leaked due to heat or had a bad cork... I'll just skip it and get a different bottle.

I do possess two leakers, though. One was a recently purchased 1964 Noval Colheita that pretty clearly leaked during shipping, so I plan to drink it next month for my birthday. The other was one of two bottles I purchased at auction that was clearly (though incorrectly) labeled a leaker and I just wanted to try it. It was incorrectly labeled because I thought that the 1985 Fonseca was going to be the leaker, but in fact it was the 1985 Smith Woodhouse. Apparently the bottle descriptions were somehow swapped, so I ended up with a steal of a deal on the Fonseca. And the Smith Woodhouse is on death row.

[Ronald Wortel]

Usually I don't buy them, but sometimes I take the risk. A couple of weeks ago LadyR and I bought a full case of Fonseca Guimaraens 1976. One of the bottles was leaking and we had the option not to take it. We decided to take the risk and used the bottle to test the quality of the rest of the case. The bottle was fabulous. The other bottles will be safely tucked away for many years to come.

[Eric Ifune]

I'd shy away from any bottle."

Even Madeira?

Well, I think any level is a good level in a Madeira. I might ask to reduce the price if I'm a glass short, however.

[Al B.]

I will buy a leaking bottle, but only if the price is right. The price has to more than compensate for the fact that in my experience a leaker is likely to be 50% worse (on average) than a sound bottle. The "worse" could range from "completely shot and undrinkable - Warre '66 recently" to "below par and different froma good bottle but still enjoyable - Ferreira '63".

[Roy Hersh]

Alex,

Your raise a point that others have touched on too. But as I know your position (somewhat) on this topic, would you please enlighten others as to what you think the buyer should be willing to pay. Why not use a 1994 Vesuvio as an example, sharing what a pristine bottle would cost today ... vs. how many quid you'd be willing to part with to obtain one which is a known leaker.

Thank you kindly!

[Derek T.]

Roy/Alex,

Forgive me for jumping in but here is my view on Roy's specific question.

I would expect at least a 60% discount on a leaking Vesuvio 94. This is based on the fact that it is a product designed to age gracefully and that particular bottle was incapable of doing so. When considering older wines I would be more generous. For a mature VP from the 60/70's I would be happy with 30-35% off the price if I intended drinking it immediately. For older wines it would very much depend on what it is. If I was offered a slightly leaky pre-war bottle with 10-15% off the full price I may take it if I needed the bottle for a specific purpose.

Derek

[Todd Pettinger]

I would expect at least a 60% discount on a leaking Vesuvio 94. This is based on the fact that it is a product designed to age gracefully and that particular bottle was incapable of doing so.

I'm actually quite curious about this statement Derek - does this mean that the '94 Vesuvio has something wrong with it that will not allow it to age properly for decades?

Todd

[Roy Hersh]

Todd,

Hopefully Derek will return to respond to your question.

[Glenn E.]

What I read is that he's saying that a damaged bottle (leaker) no longer has the capability to age gracefully, so that's why he would expect a 60% discount.

I don't think he's talking about Vesuvio in general, just the hypothetical leaker.

[Jay Powers]

My experience with port bottles with evidence of leakage, is that they generally tend to seem more aged, with some more tawny character. Generally they are not the same as a pristine bottle, although they still may be quite appealing. Sometimes though they are blatently oxidised or metallic tasting, in which case I'm not a happy camper

I would need a discount, and a strong desire to own that particular wine and an inability to get a "good" one. However, this does occour sometimes...

Jay

[Derek T.]

I would expect at least a 60% discount on a leaking Vesuvio 94. This is based on the fact that it is a product designed to age gracefully and that particular bottle was incapable of doing so.

I'm actually quite curious about this statement Derek - does this mean that the '94 Vesuvio has something wrong with it that will not allow it to age properly for decades?

Todd

Sorry, Todd, just read this.

No. That isn't what I was suggesting at all. V94 is a spectacularly good wine which I am certain will improve for decades to come. I was talking about the ageing potential of that specific bottle. Like all leakers it will suffer from the problem that as wine comes one way air goes in the other direction. Leakers have a tendancy to age more rapidly so this bottle cannot end up being the same fabulous wine that an unflawed and well kept bottle will become. That is why I would expect a heafty discount.

[Todd Pettinger]

Thanks Derek,

Just proves that I either need to read better (because your original post is actually quite clear now that I re-read it) or I need to drink less before making some of these postings...

[Derek T.]

I need to drink less before making some of these postings...

We have all been there my friend :help:

[Andy Velebil]

I need to drink less before making some of these postings...

We have all been there my friend :help:

Remeber guys....Admit nothing, Deny everthing, and demand proof

[Marc J.]

My views on purchasing leakers has gradually changed over the years. There was a time when little red around the seal didn't really bother me as long as the bottle hadn't lost too much wine and levels were decent. Being a fortified wine, I figured that the Port inside was probably O.K., so why worry? Over time these leakers (for the most part) have proved to be big disappointments and I really regret not being a bit more selective in my choices. Unless the price is drastically reduced, I'll spend a few more dollars and go for the sound bottle everytime.

Marc