failed attempt to renew subscription

[Glenn E.]

As I recall I had this same (or a similar) problem last year when I renewed.

When I attempt to renew, PayPal requires me to create a PayPal account in order to complete the transaction. I refuse to do business with PayPal.

Obviously, I somehow managed to renew my subscription last year but I cannot remember how we did it. Anyone else get a similar attempt at coercion from PayPal when they try to renew?

[Glenn E.]

BTW, I did find the thread I created last year, and the solution I used last year no longer works. PayPal now insists that you create an account in order to complete the transaction.

[Peter W. Meek]

If you have a credit card that is (or apparently, was ever) associated with a Paypal account, you cannot use that card to pay on any site that also accepts Paypal. I think it is built in to the software that Paypal offers to sites wishing to accept Paypal payments, and cannot be bypassed.

I still use Paypal, and have been "bit" by this glitch when I wanted to pay directly with the card and not via Paypal. But if you don't want to use Paypal, and don't like this system, I suggest considering legal action against Paypal for not releasing your credit card number after you quit their system. (BTW, Paypal=eBay.)

[Derek T.]

I use PayPal quite frequently and would be interested to know why some refuse to do business with them. Feel free to us a PM if you don't want to explain on a public forum

[Andy Velebil]

Stewart is checking on this issue and as soon as we have an answer we'll let you know. Sorry for any issues this may be causing.

[Peter W. Meek]

You can google { hate paypal } to see a list of sites that document (or just rant about) problems with Paypal.

I use it only to pay. Perhaps it is people who use it to receive payments who have the most problems.

Paypal actually helped me. I ordered a dozen port glasses from a guy in Portugal using Paypal. They didn't come for several months, so I contacted him via Paypal and it turned out the order had been lost. After a few emails back and forth, 12 glasses showed up a few weeks later.

[Stewart T.]

Peter is right about the problems with credit cards associated with a PayPal account.

While PayPal remains the easiest and most cost-effective method for receiving payments for subscriptions, we recognize that not everyone trusts them / likes them / will use them. We will continue to research other cost-effective ways for receiving non-PayPal payments, but for now we only have two methods of payment for subscriptions: PayPal and mailing a check.

PayPal does, in fact, offer you an opportunity to pay via credit card WITHOUT having a PayPal account.

However, if you have (or have ever had) a PayPal account and associated a credit card number with that account, PayPal will require you to log into your account if you want to use that that credit card number to pay for your FTLOP subscription.

At this point, you have a couple of options:

1) You can contact [email protected] to arrange a payment via mail. Once they payment is received, we will manually activate your subscription.

2) You can recover your PayPal account details and thus pay via the traditional PayPal.

3) You can recover your PayPal account, try to dis-associate your credit card number from your PayPal account, and then pay via PayPal "without having a PayPal account". Here is how to do option 3, although I am not 100% certain that removing your credit card number from your PayPal account will resolve this issue. If someone tries this option, I'd love to hear if it works.

[Peter W. Meek]

For me, I would like the option to keep my Paypal account, with a particular card associated with it, AND use that card directly, even on a site that uses Paypal. Doesn't look as though that is possible.

I don't really mind, as I am willing to use Paypal, but the princple that they can and do prevent me from having a choice is annoying. Maybe I DO hate Paypal, at least a little.

[Glenn E.]

This particular credit card was hacked last fall, so was re-issued and has a new number. PayPal would never have had the opportunity to know about the new number.

I tried a couple of different email addresses, too, just in case my main one is the one that PayPal used to know about. One of the emails I tried was created after my credit card was hacked, so again there's no chance that PayPal could have ever heard about it.

I figured that I could simply pay Roy in person with a check, so the only reason I posted the thread is just in case there are multiple ways to link to PayPal. In the thread I created last year, it appears that I was able to find a different way into PayPal from FTLOP and that the second route provided me with a different set of requirements on the PayPal screen. That second set of requirements did not try to force me to create an account for whatever reason, but it now appears that it leads to the same place.

As far as why I refuse to do business with PayPal...

I had an account back when PayPal started. Back then all you had to do was give them your credit card number and you could create an account for payment purposes only (you couldn't receive money with the account). Easy and safe for the consumer, because any payment went through your credit card and you could always use the might of your credit card company in dealing with any fraud.

After some time (a year or so? I don't remember) PayPal realized that having the credit card companies involved was bad for them, and so started requiring that you give them your bank account number. Once they have your number, you have NO RECOURSE if something goes wrong. PayPal simply takes money out of your account and does whatever they feel like with the money. I refused to provide them with my bank account number. For a while, that still worked - simply refusing to comply - but then they started changing their privacy policy and terms of service, which you had to agree with in order to log in. I also refused to agree with those changes, but that meant that I couldn't even log in to delete the account. Their strong-arm tactics lost them a customer forever.

So that old account sat there, stagnant and non-compliant, for many years. It is probably what's triggering their assumption that I have an account, but I cannot figure out how they could make that assumption when I attempt to pay for FTLOP using a brand new email address and brand new credit card number. I think I have even moved since that account existed, so I don't think it could even be my name/address that's causing the problem. Name, sure, but with a different address they'd have to assume it's a different person wouldn't they?

Oh well, don't put too much work into it. I'll drop a check by Roy's some time this week since my subscription expires on the 9th (I think).