For The Love Of Port

There are several options available. What do you think?

I've pretty well bought what I want for older vintages, but it would always be nicer to own a little more from 60s and 70s, and maybe 83, but those aren't cheap. I'm watching for opportunities. If I had more money today, after the FTLOPortunity arrives, I would buy more 2007 and 2000. (I'm well stocked on 2003.)

Haha... I think one of those options was for me!

Aside from being almost out of storage space, I do think that this is a good time to be buying older vintages of Port. I think that prices will stay down until the economy recovers, but might go even lower depending on the dollar/euro exchange rate over the next year.

Keep buying and don't look back. I buy what I can and 80's-95 is my sweet spot. Will buy any vintage, any house if it is a deal and decent.

I'm pretty much full with 1977-2003 Ports. It's unlikely I will buy any 2007 Ports - but if I was younger I would. I am still going back and buying a few select 2000's, which is a vintage I had skipped on release. Otherwise I am only focused on old wines from 1970 and before. My wife says I'm not buying any more though.

So many bargins,so little time.
Port remains one of the best deals on superior "gran cru" wines. Since I have no idea how long I'll live, the 07's interest me. Of course my wife will have to finish them if I am gone, possibly with her new toy boys. More than likely we will both live a long enough time to make a good dent in them. Then the 4 kids will have to carry on with their spouses. They all like Port, especially the 85 Warres
Am also hoping for 2009 to be declared for my first grandson so he can have them in a corner of the cellar waiting for him. Hopefully the remaining ports will live on in the cellars of future generations ...unless I drink them all first! ........ HAGL ! ( Have A Good Laugh)

Can we have an option that says "I'm not buying much Port at the moment because the price has gone through the roof compared to 2 years ago"?

Derek,


David and I were discussing that recently. Actually, even compared to 1 year ago, prices really seem to be taking off again. There are still bargains to be had for sure, but those are coming out of someone's cellar who either no longer wants to drink their Port OR needs the cash. Interesting to watch this.

Years ago, when I did most of my Port buying ... I typically found April to be the best month in the year to get bargains. I can't explain why, but it was somethign I noticed often during the 1990s.

I did remark to Roy that I'm seeing a price rise and increased buying, especially over the last 6 months. Ports that sat for months are now gone, even stuff that not normally on the radar - such as the 10 cases of 1980 Gould Campbell, all sold in a month at £409 before VAT and duty. Another data point was yesterday. I got up early yesterday morning to watch the Christie's auction. All of the Ports were sold for big money (at least I thought so). Many were 50% over high estimate, and some even more. The only "deal" was the 6 bottles of 1931 Noval for £9200. Anyway, it seems like many of the deals on top wines from previous vintages are drying up. Still, compared to Bordeaux and Burgundy Port is a still a steal.
-Dave-

Roy Hersh wrote:I typically found April to be the best month in the year to get bargains. I can't explain why, but it was somethign I noticed often during the 1990s.

Last April I found this to be true, but not this year. Last year I put in bids in multiple places in February and March with little success. In April, without really raising my bids, I won numerous lots in two different auctions. I think it has to do with the perception that Port is a winter drink.

Eric Menchen wrote:I think it has to do with the perception that Port is a winter drink.

I would also say that there is little reason for merchants to buy Port in April - so there is less competition for Port at that time. Less competition ==> lower prices. Also, echoing your thought above, merchants would have some incentive to reduce stocks of Port in the Spring and generate some cash by liquidating some Port. Increased supply ==> lower prices.

For some reason this year has not followed that pattern, especially for older Ports.

David Spriggs wrote:I did remark to Roy that I'm seeing a price rise and increased buying, especially over the last 6 months.

I'm certainly seeing increased buying, but at retail (as opposed to at auction) I'm not seeing a deliberate price rise. There's obviously a price rise occurring as a side effect of the increased purchasing since the least expensive bottles sell out first, but I don't feel like I'm seeing stores mark up prices yet.

It's hard to tell, though, since I haven't been shopping as much lately due to limited remaining storage and budget.

I still have some of the auction catalogues from around the mid 2000's when I really stepped up my port purchases,the price increases are amazing. Clearly prices have increased significantly for the ports from the 70's and 80's which being nearly 40 are the ones I really need to own more of - sadly with the exception of the anniversary uplift of the 70's in my view these wines if you choose the top wines of the vintage are just going to go up and up. So my view is yes it is still a good time, saying they have gone up hugely and therefore it is not a good time to buy will just prove in my view to be wrong, sure we wish we had bought more earlier but you have to look at where you think they are going not where they have been.

I totally agree Chris. Also look at the price differential between the 1963s and the 1955s. Soon the 1963's will be at the same level or higher. There are only eight years between those vintages. I only see the 1963-1970's going up from here. The post 1970 will take a bit more time, but I also expect an increase.

Funny, I found July & August the best months to get minimum bids at auction accepted in both Port & still wine lots. I figured it was because folks went on vacation or holiday at that time and did not pay much attention to auctions. I found this out the first time when i had been bidding for months in my early auction buying career and never once being succesful for months on end. I finally "won" every single lot in August and totally forgot to place an overall auction "cap" on the total I was willing to spend....man $3K later was a bit of a shocker

People seek out mature VP and that is why they carry a premium. The bargains to be had are from the 1980s at this point, if you are interested. Few great deals exist in pre-1980 VP but if you are patient and really look hard and do your homework (don't just look for the cheapest price ... but best stored bottles) you can sometimes fall into some really great scores. Shop carefully!

While I've bought quite a few cases of 2007's, my main focus right now is the older ones. I've finally gotten my cellar where I want with younger stuff to last me into older age, so the past couple years I've been back filling with stuff from the 1970's and older. I've really seen prices of the older, pre-1960's, stuff really go up in price the past couple years. I assume as the availability of these older ones have shrunk. I've heard it's getting harder to find well stored case lots for sale at auction in the UK, as many of the traditional sources (Universities, Clubs, etc) have already thinned out their cellars and now have little left to sell at the moment.

But what has really gone up in price is the older Colheita's. It seems as though the price increase is coming from the producer side, not being driven by the retailers. Not sure if it's just because stocks are getting low, demand is up, or a combination of both. But now older colheita's are almost as much, or in some cases, more money than a VP from the same decade.

I think about 2009 and there were a number of great prices for VP on the auction market. I was able to pick up a pair of '63 Grahams for $150 each, and now cannot find it near that price. Also added some '70 Taylors. As the opportunities exist, I will definitely be looking for some of the older vintages.

If you purchased 1963 Graham's at $150 per bottle last year, I'd make sure to pop one and make sure it is good. Sometimes, when prices seem too good to be true ... there is a reason. Not saying that was the case for your purchase CJ, but I'd be a skeptic if someone approached me with a price like that (even a year ago). I remember thinking I got a good deal for ex-cellars bottles of that exact VP at $109, back in 1991-1992, along with Taylor and Fonseca. Given that these were all in the $300+ range not long ago, to see them sold for half price would cause concern, especially at auction.

One thing I've seen recently at auction here in the USA is Port bottles that have some obvious signs of water damage, like they were submerged in water for some period of time, and a large number with some kind of issue (signs of seepage, raised cork, etc). Many of these are in case lot quantities and they are listed as being in good condition, yet the pictures tell a different story. They typically have been listed at prices normally associated with perfect provenance, yet have some serious tell-tale signs they are compromised. I don't know the source of these bottles, be it from a flood somewhere, old "Katrina bottles" still showing up, or fire damaged and the insurance company or owner is trying to recoup their loss. As a result I am even more careful than normal of what I buy at auction at the moment and I'd recommend others be careful as well. As Roy said, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.