Wine Critics Are Worthless

[Roy Hersh]

Just before I release my 2007 Vintage Port Forecast, I thought I would share with you how meaningless it will be.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... _lifestyle

[Peter W. Meek]

I don't know, Roy; I think ratings, tasting notes, and reviews are very useful.

I have noticed that I like and enjoy wines that have been highly-rated much more than those with poor reviews. This is especially true when the writer is someone whose expertise I respect.

Apparently, I am as much or more susceptible to being influenced by expectations as anyone. So keep those good reviews coming; they can make mediocre wines good and good wines excellent. Just don't write too many low-ratings; no sense spoiling a perfectly acceptable wine.

(Kidding)

It does baffle a person when two respected wine reviewers come up with 12 descriptives (8 for one, and 4 for the second) for the same wine and no two descriptives match.

BTW, if anyone wants to save this article, go to the website, click on Printer-Friendly, and select, copy and paste it into a blank text document, and save it on your computer. I think WSJ removes articles after a fairly short while.

[Glenn E.]

What Roy is too modest to mention is that these awards come from huge tastings where the judges are expected to taste 40, 60, or 100+ wines and rate them all. The judges typically get no more than 5 minutes with each wine - if that - and then at the end of the day they award a gold medal.

I happen to know that Roy has spent at least 4 days with each of the 2007 Vintage Ports that he has tasted, and that in some cases he has had the Ports more than once (meaning more than one 4-day tasting). I've witnessed him identify a Port completely blind, pull off the bag and be correct. I've also witnessed him say "I think this is either X, Y, or Z" and be correct. (Obviously, he's only done that on repeat Ports, but to me it's impressive that he can even identify when a Port is one he's already tasted let alone actually identify it!)

So while I don't disagree with that WSJ article, I suspect it has more to do with the way that most judging is done and not with any inherent flaw in the human palate. You can't expect a mere mortal to be able to accurately judge any kind of competition - not just wines - with only 5 minutes to evaluate each of 100+ entries. That's simply not enough time to accurately evaluate an entry at a competitive level.

[Brian C.]

I often don't buy into the critics' ratings, either. It all seems pretty personal and subjective to me. Whenever I see a bunch of descriptors for a particular wine, what am I supposed to make of it? And if I were to describe it, how would I do that and have it mean something to others? I go into wine shops and see the descriptions that are written out for a given wine. I wonder who the target audience of that writeup is. It seems like a strange way to market a product, and it can often be intimidating after reading the reviews. When I wrote about my experiences yesterday with a lineup of Alentejo wines, I didn't know how to convey what I experienced very well. I was like 'yeah, they're good, duh, but what can I tell other people about them?' If I'm running a shop, do I want to tell customers that a wine has hints of currants, leather, tobacco, and blackberries? How many people even know what currants taste like?

[David Spriggs]

these awards come from huge tastings where the judges are expected to taste 40, 60, or 100+ wines and rate them all. The judges typically get no more than 5 minutes with each wine - if that - and then at the end of the day they award a gold medal.

Agreed... these types of tastings are worthless. Critics still have their place... if you can find one that you consistently agree or disagree with.
-Dave-

[Derek T.]

Is this thread worthy of moving into one of the main discussion threads to give it more visibility to those who seldom or never visit "Other Discussions"?

[Peter W. Meek]

Is this thread worthy of moving into one of the main discussion threads to give it more visibility to those who seldom or never visit "Other Discussions"?

Heck no. If they can't dig out the interesting stuff...

Well, you know....

[Roy Hersh]

In reality when judging in competitions, I typically am asked to taste between 120 and 160 wines in 8 hours. We do get a lunch break for an hour in addition.

[Eric Menchen]

In reality when judging in competitions, I typically am asked to taste between 120 and 160 wines in 8 hours. We do get a lunch break for an hour in addition.

Yikes! In my beer judging experience, two to three flights a day is typical, sometimes four. Each flight has about 8 entries, maybe 12 or so on the high end. Of course you have to swallow!

[Andy Velebil]

Yikes! In my beer judging experience, two to three flights a day is typical, sometimes four. Each flight has about 8 entries, maybe 12 or so on the high end. Of course you have to swallow!

Now thats a tasting I like

[Roy Hersh]

Who cares about beer. It is Port season now. Take that beer yakety yak over to other discussions.

[Andy Velebil]

Who cares about beer. It is Port season now. Take that beer yakety yak over to other discussions.

Now lookie here mister, it's always Port season.

Beer is quite important, as nothing is better at refreshing the palate in the middle of a large tasting than an intermezzo of Super Bock

[Brian C.]

In reality when judging in competitions, I typically am asked to taste between 120 and 160 wines in 8 hours. We do get a lunch break for an hour in addition.

Roy,

How are you able to taste that many in such a short period of time? When you get to 100, do you have any taste buds left? Do you ever run into the problem of having one offering that leaves a lingering taste that prevents you from judging subsequent wines effectively?

[Eric Menchen]

Who cares about beer. It is Port season now. Take that beer yakety yak over to other discussions.

Perhaps I should rephrase. Yikes, that's a lot of wine to drink in one day. 120 to 160 wines in 8 hours is like 3 to 10 times more samples than I would consume while judging some other beverage which will go nameless in this discussion.

[Roy Hersh]

Roy,

How are you able to taste that many in such a short period of time? When you get to 100, do you have any taste buds left? Do you ever run into the problem of having one offering that leaves a lingering taste that prevents you from judging subsequent wines effectively?

Brian,

I began judging professionally in wine competitions in 1999, although I had participated in some amateur events as far back as the early 1990s when I was a Food & Beverage Director. Admittedly, it takes practice but mostly focus. I had a great mentor when I was learning to professionally judge at events, Daryl Groom the one time winemaker at Penfolds, (known for exquisite Penfold's Grange and other wineries like Folie a Deux and Atlas Peak) taught me how to concentrate in large flights, properly taste without swallowing wine and most of all, how to remain focused by analyzing each wines organoleptic characteristics. Drinking lots of water, an occasional cracker and even neutral olives like Graber helps to keep the palate fresh. The flights are set up from white to red, light to heavy, so that palate fatigue does not set in. Not everybody is cut out for doing this, but I've judged competitions in a number of states and do at least 2 of these every year. Although the most table wines I've ever had to judge in a day was 160, I once had to make my way though 100 Ports and that was by far, much harder for me.

[Brian C.]

Thanks, Roy. Most impressive.

[Roy Hersh]

Honestly, not that impressive at all. Training and focus. You could learn the same skills if it was important to you.

[Steve Culhane]

Very interesting read... I am always fascinated when I read these descriptions with a dozen aromas and flavour components. Tasting is subjective, that is all

My favorite critic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SvwRLURUG0

Steve