fonsca 1912 any out there how rare and great is it

[Symon B]

hi does anyone know how maney bottles there are left in the world of f1912 i have heard it is ultra rare and of a vintage to match the 1927 etc etc
i can fiend no tasting notes on it my family has a bottle base of neck no seapage wax seal all there dated and named on wax
we think it could be in fact rarer than national 1931
how maney bottles are known of national 1931 in existance and how maney have been at auction in the last 25 years and indeed how maney are known to have been drunk
i phoned christies today and they have no records of f 1912 certanly for 30 years and can fiend no tasting notes on anyone having drank it i
look forward to your comments portlovers werever you are symonb

[Eric Menchen]

Well, it looks like one just sold today at Bonham's: http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.s ... ectionNo=1
"Sold for £1,012 inclusive of Buyer's Premium"

[Symon B]

hi eric indeed it is this bottle my family baught today if you can answer my quiries id be greatfull baught cheaply id say there is a dow at 2459ds on the net at mo and fonseca is much rarer and greater do you have a bottle eric ore have you tasted this vintage my friend symonb

[Symon B]

hi and for the first time great ports vastly exeded there estimates in this sale in the uk
bordeaux buyers think there is many miles in investing in port now rarther than the vastly over valued claret our day is coming folks symonb port is and will get money thrown at it now even in a disintigrating capitalistic world symonb

[Niels Stroejer]

Hi

My records says that a danish bottled Fonseca 1912 was sold on TH Auctions (in Denmark) in december 2007, for 600 euro.

But you can buy some Taylors 1912 at the price of 1750 £ at Wilkinsons vintners in UK.

Cheers!

Niels

[Symon B]

hi niels
what lot number was it please and what was name of auction house in denmark
its so rare there are no notes it apears thankyou symonb

[Tom D.]

hi and for the first time great ports vastly exeded there estimates in this sale in the uk
bordeaux buyers think there is many miles in investing in port now rarther than the vastly over valued claret our day is coming folks symonb port is and will get money thrown at it now even in a disintigrating capitalistic world symonb

I suppose that would be a fine thing if you are buying Port as an investment. But I'd prefer it not happen, for the sake of us who enjoy drinking it. People with more ability to spend than appreciate have already priced me out of many of my favorite Bordeaux, Burgundy, Napa, Washington, etc, etc, etc.................

[Symon B]

hi indeed it means port will cost more re the old and rare but the good news is that for several years people like roy have been promoting port etc etc this is the result in part more and more people are apretiating port
i love port and drink it and indeed also invest as a treat for my children they can drink it ore sell it ore indeed keep it
if i buy 3 rare bottles il drink 1 and keep the rest i cant afford to drink it all yet !!!!!
the fun is in the chase finding great port in small salerooms etc i have friends who are investers of bordeaux they buy cases and never drink it never see it how boaring but most have the word PORT on there lips now great port has always been expencive like anything els rare and great
again for me its like my marble collecting the chase the rare etc etc the one that got away any port lovers out there collect marbles !!!
of course we all wish our port to apritiate in value but if it does not it does not mater to me symonb
ps any tasting notes found yet folks on the 1912f and could i have the lot number etc of the posible bottle sold in denmark thankyou
ore any bottles in existance id like to count up as i think it could by as rare as qnn 1931

[Eric Menchen]

again for me its like my marble collecting the chase the rare etc etc the one that got away any pot lovers out there collect marbles !!!

I think I lost all my marbles when I started collecting Port.

I hope you enjoy this bottle Symon, and I have high hopes for you. I know nothing about it.

I would be very happy if the bottles I buy today are at about the same cost, adjusted for inflation, in the future. I'm investing in my future drinking, not for financial gain. I don't plan to sell anything. If prices take off, I just hope I have my cellar well stocked by then.

[Symon B]

thanks eric me to re your comments i dont have a big collection but like good rare things are you in the brewing industry
this bottle of f 1912 wants braught out at a titanic remembrence dinner in new york in 2012 that would be amazing symonb

[Eric Menchen]

are you in the brewing industry

I've brewed on professional equipment, and that beer was a success so the brewery is now trying to scale up to an even bigger quantity. But currently I'm just brewing at home and hoping to open a brewpub someday. A few years ago it was a serious consideration, then the economy turned south. Perhaps when the economy improves ...

[Symon B]

hi eric were i lived in cumbria uk there were many micro breweries jennings was one of the largest in cockermouth there is a fab brewery at the bitter end pub in the town and they brewed several inc some beer using my heather honey and we tried a cep wild mushroom ale
i was in C.A.M.R.A that pramotes real ale in the uk there must be 40 micro breweries in cumbria but back to f1912 none of that there
anyhow any one found any tasting notes on the ultra rare it apears f1912 imagin doing a 6 bottle horizontal on the great 1912 vintage in 2012 we just need another 5 others symonb

[Roy Hersh]

Symon,

It was time to cut to the chase and go right to the head of Fonseca, Adrian Bridge who responded in 12 hours:



Dear Roy

Thanks for the question. We have 3 bottles in our cellar.

Our latest tasting note is from a tasting held on 4th & 5th Feb 1995 when Bruce Guimaraens, the Fonseca winemaker, did a vertical. The wines had been gatehred togetehr by Dr Haskell Norman over a period of 6 years.

Fonseca 1912 Vintage Port. This wine was imported into the US by a compnay called Vieux Vin, of whom I have not heard. For a Vintage Port of a mere eighty three years of age this wine was staggering. It was the perfect example of the true harmony between youth and age - an how well it carried the balance. It had good, mature fruit in the moth which held on well during the finish, which was long! I'm sure that this was Uncle Frank's favourite vintage as he had a bottle put in his casket when he passed away!

I have copied Bruce's note exactly as he wrote it.

It was the first Fonseca blend to have Cruzeiro in it and was offered at 32 shillings adozen. Bottling took place on 10th December 1914.

[Symon B]

hi roy thankyou very much amasing it could be the fonseca of the 20thc in reality 4/6 max bottles known thus far makes it at least as rare as qnn i wonder if it could chalenge it for supremicey only time and opening a high fill bottle will tell we just dont know but it could be a dark hourse for port of the 20thc along with 31 qn and qnn for that great man to be bueried with a bottle is him declaring it number 1 a legend
it realy would not surprise me iv read it was rich with huge backbone
roy which is greater out of a good btl 1927f and a same in 1948f out of interest regards symonb
ps what is crueziero that was in it roy have they recorked there 3 ore not i wonder roy

[Roy Hersh]

I have only had the Fonseca 1927 once and it was a solid bottle but not a great Port (at least not that particular bottle) but it was an amazing treat and a very generous gesture on the part of Uncle Tom who opened it blind in Oct. 2008. It was one of the last "holy grail" Ports that I had yet to try and was thrilled to have that opportunity. The 1948 Fonseca's I've had (only 2 or 3x) were all stellar as have all but one of four Taylor '48s I've tried (that one was with a crappy cork and oxidized) and the Graham which I've had just 3x have also been stellar. So out of about 9-10 1948s, of those 3 Ports, only one less than 96 pointer of the bunch. I can't honestly say if the 1927 Fonseca would be better than the 1948, but from my experience ... no.

Anyway, Cruzeiro is one of the main Quintas used for the Fonseca VP blends along with Quinta do Panascal. No, I seriously doubt the bottles were recorked. Very little re-corking is done by the Port trade. There are a couple of exceptions, Ferreira is one of them.

[Moses Botbol]

I can't honestly say if the 1927 Fonseca would be better than the 1948, but from my experience ... no.

Would have to agree. But how many of either vintage does anyone really get to try?

[Symon B]

i agree but its only in the tasting of these can one learn more and become more of a coniseur of ports i dont know if my wife will ever let me open it maybe it should remain closed for history etc would not it have been wonderfull to be in the dura from 1911 to 1914 the new blend going in the great port declaration and the bottling of it etc etc when i was bidding for this bottle there must have been some very important bidders as they did not take my bid on the phone for ages trying to get in but i was not going to stop till i got it once in
i wonder if there is a port museum in the duro like you have a salmon fishing museum in cascapedia canada it could be were all the great ports are stored and seen and the history of port is told symonb

[Roy Hersh]

Yes there is a fantastic museum in the Douro and they do have many old bottles, but none of them are wildly expensive potentially great Vintage Ports. They are uniquely labeled bottles with full color pictures in most cases. I have shown my pictures of these in the past, in newsletters.

Anyway, I strongly advise you to drink you bottle at some point. At this moment, given it is only two years away ... maybe New Years Eve in 2012 or the April day that the Titanic sunk in 1912. Either way, don't feel that just because it is an expensive bottle that you can never find a time to open it. You can't take it with you, so you might as well enjoy it.

[Symon B]

hi sounds fab but even beter and groundbreaking would be for 6/8 men to bring 1 bt 1912 from the diferent houses and do a horisontal in april 2012 in new york over a fine meal with say 4/6 honoured guests filmes press there the whole shabang indeed a small film made of the event roy robert parker suckling etc
we could rattle up at least 8 1912 bt by then im sure but bottles base of neck ore better only what a vision any one getting exited with that idea once in a lifetime experience 12 people max symonb
ore a rep from each house and guests how could it work roy !!!!!!! i cant think of anything more exiting in port id like to do

[Moses Botbol]

Personally, I would like pre-war Fonseca vertical instead a 1912 horizontal.