question about sediment

[Monique Heinemans.]

Last week I opened a bottle Calem 2000 VP. This bottle threw no sediment at all. I know that sediment arises during the years of maturity, so I guess this is normal after being in the bottle for only 9 years now? But: Is there a relationship between the amount of sediment in the younger years or even the moment the sediment beginns to form and the development or aging of vintage port?
I hope my question makes sence...

Monique.

[John M.]

Hi Monique;

Your question makes a lot of sense--although my experience is limited (somewhat of a Newbie), my experience has been that new VPs tend to throw off little if any sediment (2007's), most LBVs (unfiltered ones) and crusted ports tend to throw off some sediment--as to a comparison in age I've had the 1999 Warre's LBV twice in the past two years and each time I got a small dab of intense sediment.

Cheers...John M.

[Jeff G.]

Along with what John said, there are a multitude of reasons for sediment. Age is what is in common in almost all cases even amongst filtered lbvs.

Some of it is how long the bottle has been sitting resting with out disturbance, in which case you will see a layer of sediemtn on that side of the bottle.

Excessive sediment in a young bottle though would have been thinking that it was an improperly stored bottle.

I've had a noval lbv that was bottled in 07 and the color of the wine was reddish amber and had sediment that just clumped out.

It was a terrible bottle.

[Peter W. Meek]

Perhaps what is needed is a bottle centrifuge. I've seen large ones intended for restaurant kitchens. Meant to concentrate stocks and the like for intense flavor, and separate oils/fats from the water-based parts of things. A bit bigger and we could be packing the sediment in a disturbed port bottle right back to the bottom. (Article on this somewhere on the WWW. Try: { kitchen centrifuge })

I have found as much as 2" of dense sediment in the bottom of a couple of 63/66 VPs. Been flat for a LONG time without disturbance, and then upright for a few weeks.

I just got an antique (looking) decanting machine off eBay. This one looks tall enough to decant into a full-sized decanter. (It even has a little candle holder - which I may modify into an LED flashlight holder.) Now I will get to see some undisturbed sediment.

[Andy Velebil]

My understanding from what I've been told is that a VP throws off an initial large amount of sediment when young, then as it ages that amount lessens and is a more gradual accumulation.

[Jeff G.]

My understanding from what I've been told is that a VP throws off an initial large amount of sediment when young, then as it ages that amount lessens and is a more gradual accumulation.

you wouldn't be concerned if you saw a big chunk of sediment in say a noval 07?
or a fonseca 03?

[Andy Velebil]

you wouldn't be concerned if you saw a big chunk of sediment in say a noval 07?
or a fonseca 03?

Nope, not at all.

[Tom Archer]

This is a slightly weird subject, because I cannot find any clear corelation between the time that sediment is formed, or the amount that is formed; with the quality of the wine concerned - yet there is quite a lot of variance on both counts.

What I have noticed is that wines from good years tend to generate flakey sediment that does not readily cloud the wine, while those from poorer years tend to generate dusty sediment that fogs the wine with ease...

..Why?

- I have absolutely no idea!

Tom

[Jeff G.]

me thinks I'll have to start recording how muhc sediment in my notes going forward.

I've always maintained mental notes and it looks like it's not a good scientific way to answer this question!

[Eric Menchen]

I haven't taken real notes on this either. From my mental notes, I recall lots of sediment in Graham's in general, and the 1985 in particular--gobs of it.

[Peter W. Meek]

It was almost certainly a 63 or 66 Grahams in which I found the heavy sediment. That was my favorite at the time.

[Monique Heinemans.]

I just wondered if the amount or lack of sediment in an early stage (or the time it is formed) could tell me something about the developing of the port.
I've opened a bottle of Niepoort vp 2003 some weeks ago and that one did have a small amount of sediment, so that started me thinking.

Monique.

[Peter W. Meek]

I suspect that sediment is a wild variable -- different for every house and every vintage. I have never had a feeling that it was in any way related to how much I liked the port.

[Roy Hersh]

I think there would even be differences in the quantity of sediment in like bottles within a case of VP.

The topic of sediment is always fun to discuss. At what point (age of the VP) do you start noticing a significant amount of sediment?

[Paul Fountain]

There was a bit of sediment in the 04 Vale Meao I opened on the weekend. There was a little more than I was expecting but it mostly stuck to the bottom of the bottle.

[Roy Hersh]

In decanting eight bottles of 1991 VP this weekend, I paid very close attention to the sediment. In 20 year old bottlings, I did not expect too much. However, I was literally shocked at the quantity of sediment that some of the bottles contained. In fact, the Quinta de Vargellas had by far the most volume of sediment of any of the bottles. Nonetheless, there were some that had very little and it was very fine. While other bottles had over a full ounce of sediment and filled the cheesecloth. The amount in these 20 year olds was as much as I've ever seen in any bottles, older or younger.

[Peter W. Meek]

... over a full ounce of sediment...
...as much as I've ever seen in any bottles...

At least once, I saw about an inch and a half in the bottom of the bottle. At that time, I was decanting with a funnel and a coffee filter. I had to stop decanting twice (3 filters, total) to change the filter which was full, and no longer letting ANY port through.

Unfortunately, I can't recall the house or vintage, although I would guess it might have been a 1960, 1963 or 1966, as those years were my early port focus. (Dow, Delaforce and Graham were the houses I was mainly focused on.)

[Roy Hersh]

My guess is that it was NOT the Nimrod Tawny!


On a brighter note, this WAS what I used for A QUESTION FOR THE PORT TRADE for this month's newsletter which will be out soon!

[Monique Heinemans.]

Thank you all for answering my question, both here and in the latest newsletter!
To be honest I'll have to read some answers in the newsletter a second time in order to understand everything, but again: thank you! It's always good to learn more about the things you're interested in.

, Monique.

[Roy Hersh]

Monique,

The question went out by individual email to over 30 members of the Port trade in April. You are now famous as you were mentioned in each and every one. Should you ever choose to go to Portugal, you can just tell them: "I am the Monique that asked the question." You'll be warmly welcomed!