LIVE from So. AFRICA: WORLD CUP FUTBOL

[Roy Hersh]

Heading down to watch the German team play England. Should be a very exciting game.

I am still rooting for Portugal and it will be a great game vs. Spain (hopefully) on Tuesday night.

I hope Ghana goes far too.

[Eric Menchen]

Well, FIFA went even lower in my book today: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/ ... 901&ver=us
It's one thing to say we won't have instant replay for officiating, but now we're going to censor the truth from the fans?

[Andy Velebil]

Well, FIFA went even lower in my book today: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/ ... 901&ver=us
It's one thing to say we won't have instant replay for officiating, but now we're going to censor the truth from the fans?

Yeah that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of This is sport, bad calls happen and are what make the game exciting.

[John M.]

The whole thing is rather riduculous. It seems as though every other game is marred by an atrocious game changing referee call/non-call, etc. The technology is there to improve calls and it can be done without breaking down the flow of play too much. Further, one ref and two linesman on a pitch that big with the ball moving so far so fast, plus 22 players--it just isn't enough referee power.

I have a hard time fathoming that FIFA wants this result--no one's really talking about the wonderful play, we're all talking about the bad refereeing and teams getting jobbed out of the tourney.

[Derek T.]

I watch many sports on TV and I am on FIFA's side in this debate. I can't comment on how TV and other technologies are depolyed on US sports but what I do know is that its introduction to UK sports has slowed them down and introduced an environment where the match officials cop out of making the simplest of decisions.

It is standard rules that replays are not shown on screens inside the stadium. This is not an effort to hide the truth, it is to allow the referee to run the game and, more importantly, to avoid the risk of a riot amongst the players or fans when a bad decision is made. The stadium officials at the Argentina v Mexico game made a huge mistake in showing that replay. A much bigger mistake than the Referee! Football (Soccer) has in recent times emerged from the dark days of riots, stabbings, shootings, pitch invasions etc. Showing controvertial incidents on a big screen to 80,000 football fans is a very bad idea, especially when the referee has no discretion to reverse his decision.

99% of football games are played without TV cameras and they all survive the good and bad calls that the referee might make. It all balances out in the end. Why should the prima-dona teams at the top of the sport have different rules? They should just get on with it and accept that controversy is part of the fun and entertainment of the game.

Derek

[Eric Menchen]

I think in the U.S., 100% of the big four professional sports (U.S. football, baseball, basketball, and hockey) are played with TV cameras. And they have replays on the big screen at every game. All of the big four have instant replay rules in one way or another. It is more or less disruptive depending on the sport. Now none of these are soccer/football which is perhaps the most continuous flow game out there. However, I think there are at least two ways of implementing replay into soccer/football without being particularly disruptive:
1. Replay ref in the video booth - Have a referee watch the game on the TV monitors somewhere without disrupting the game at all. The ref only disrupts play if there is in fact a bad call, perhaps once or twice per game, by calling to the head ref on the field over the radio, which they already have.
2. Challenge system - Each team gets one challenge. To use it, they have to stop the play of the game, perhaps by kicking the ball out of bounds. Win the challenge, you get the goal, ball back, whatever, and keep you challenge. Lose your challenge, and you're out of challenges and you lost possession of the ball to boot.
Obviously only certain things should be reviewable. Verifying goals or things like offsides after a goal is easy - no disruption there. Verifying non-goal calls might be tougher, but not impossible. Anything that results in a penalty kick could be a candidate - play is already disrupted here too. Anyway, that's my

[Derek T.]

Eric,

Both of those options could be made to work. But would they improve the game as a form of entertainment overall? I doubt it.

Regardless of that: where the rules of a game dictate that it is ruled on the field by a single referee who's decision is final (albeit with two assistants 50 or so yards away) it is wrong to show his human failings to the crowd on a huge TV screen seconds after he makes an error or just isn't looking in the right direction at a particular moment. As Andy says, bad decisions happen in sport. Real sportsmen accept that and get on with it.

The TV in the UK is currently filled with every example of a wrong decision by a referee in this World Cup and the pundits are crying out for TV evidence to be introduced. One of the examples is the Teves goal for Argentina, which was off-side. It is no coincidence that the only rule the English pundits want to see changed is to have TV evidence introduced for to determine whether or not the ball crossed the line. Only one of the examples being shown would be covered by such a rule. If the pundits had their way the Teves goal would still stand but England would be awarded their goal. Now is not the time to ask biased pundits for an opinion on what is or is not the right way to go.

It is worth considering that the only thing FIFA have t gain from not allowing TV evidence is the continuation of this sort of controversy as part of the entertainment they preside over

Derek

Derek

[John M.]

It may be entertainment to us, but it is big business/opportunity to others--should someone work years to get to the World Cup only to see their efforts dashed by a bad call that is easily reversed? Would Maradona be who he is if he did not score the "hand of god" goal with his hand and Argentina lost?

We have replay in most American Sports; it does not impede the referees from making decisions. They understand they're doing their best--and they want to get the calls right--but sometimes they miss. What's wrong with getting it right? The way it is, the team & fans on the wrong end feel they got jobbed---but if a bad call were reversed, I think you could live with it if it went against you.

As to Sportsmanship, the goalie fakes the ref and gets away with it???? That is not sporting--sporting would have been to just let England have a "free" goal they should have had as a show of sportsmanship (Bill Tilden the tennis player from the 1930s was famous for tanking a point if he felt he won the previous one on a wrong ref call).

OK--I'm ranting too much. Quick, get me some 85 Fonseca........

[Derek T.]

John,

I can see where you are coming from with almost everything you say, especially the bit about the Fonseca 85, but...

Would Maradona be who he is if he did not score the "hand of god" goal with his hand and Argentina lost?

Yes he would, and no he wouldn't. Maradona was a star long before that goal, and long before the one he scored a few minutes later that was one of the greatest goals ever scored in a World Cup match. But he wouldn't have been demonised had he not scored that goal. There is absolutely no doubt about it that Maradona was one of the most gifted individuals ever to lace-up a pair of football boots. The man is a legend in his own lifetime.

I accept your point on sportsmanship. Unfortunately, your initial point about big business has removed the concept from what we once knew as sport.



Where is that bloody Fonseca 85?

Derek

[John M.]

Hi Derek;

Agreed--you are exactly correct about Maradona. Only thing wrong here is we don't have that 85 Fonseca to share and debate some more.

So now that we're both out of it, who are you rooting for? Got to go with Portugal over Spain. Also rooting for Ghana (I love underdogs and good for Africa). Esp. looking forward to the Argentina-Germany match--that could be a final if the draw were different and someone could knock off Brazil.

...John

[Andy Velebil]

Football (Soccer) has in recent times emerged from the dark days of riots, stabbings, shootings, pitch invasions etc. Showing controvertial incidents on a big screen to 80,000 football fans is a very bad idea

Yeah, but those old riots were really fun to watch on replay

Ok sorry, I'll go back to my cave now.....

[Roy Hersh]

There I was, sitting in the lobby of our hotel with this huge TV the focal point of 40-50 rabid Spain fans glued to it. Dorene and I had our first early dinner (before 9 p.m.) so that we could get a good seat, and we did. The front row where I had been sitting on most other nights to watch the late game was "reserved" on this night and when questioning our lovely hostess, she said that the president of the hotel company and his friends had taken that row. She suggested we sit just to the side, and although I knew everyone would be drinking beers, I ordered a bottle of Rioja and of course, wore my Portugal futbol shirt, knowing that if things got rough at least I'd crack the bottle over the head of one of 'em. Kidding of course. But I sure got some finger wagging, shaken heads and funny stares before the game even started. When the young man in his mid-30s showed up with his entourage to take over the front row, these were the hoity toity Seville Row types dressed down slightly for the big match up.

I curbed my enthusiasm, only slightly, but the 1st half saw a brilliantly played game by both sides and the Portugal's goalie making some stellar stops on tough shots. Portugal's lethargy from recent games seemed to be gone and their intensity was quite high. At half time the front row crew who had been only speaking Spanish, all turned to Dorene and me and asked, "you must be American's, why are you here in Spain rooting for Portugal?" After my brief explanation, they continued to speak to us in near perfect English and from then on, were very friendly ... even when I was cheering when it seemed like Portugal was on the verge of scoring. Then that rebound and the score for Spain and the place went wild. I held up by glass of red in deference to all in the room and they were cheering for their team and many nodded in what I take they felt was good sportsmanship. Portugal seemed to lose their lust for winning after that and allowed Spain on their side of the field for the majority of the 2nd half with very few scoring chances for Portugal, albeit a few VERY close opportunities. It was not until the last two minutes of the game where you saw Portugal really get going and attack with the same passion they had showed in the first half. As time expired there was a brief onslaught and a big mistake which prevented Portugal from capitalizing on a great offensive move. Moments later it was all over and I could do nothing but congratulate the front row fans who were deliriously chanting and hugging. I went out and smoked a cigar in sympathy of Portugal's loss.

Tonight after 2 weeks here, I will finally get to drink some Douro wine and Port and can't wait ... along with some Spanish gems that some wine journo friends are bringing. Ahh to think what could have been.

P.S. The English team definitely scored the goal that was denied.

[Roy Hersh]

Where is everybody. Nobody commenting on the exciting game between The Netherlands winning against all odds by coming from behind vs. Brazil? This was the top-ranked team in the tourney and yet with all the folks we have here from Netherlands, not a single comment? Amazing to me!

And what about Ghana being ousted, with tears shed all over Africa at the end of this game. So close and yet so far to a semi-finals appearance, a botched penalty kick by Gyan the difference ultimately, although Uruguay dominated the subsequent shootout and Muslera (Uruguay's goalie) was at his most focused. And what do you think of the infamous hand ball by Suarez?

After today's wins by Germany over Argentina and Spain over Paraguay, respectively, we have an intriguing semifinal round featuring:

The Netherlands and Uruguay on Tuesday and Germany vs. Spain on Wednesday. Three Euro teams, one from So. America and sadly, none from Africa. For anyone not yet following the So. African showcase, the final round matchup between the winners of the above games will be played next Saturday, although the final game is on next Sunday for the 3rd place title match.

There are lots of people in Portugal and other countries including the inimitable Argentine legend and now coach Diego Maradona, who questioned both the sole goal by Spain (offsides ... say the masses) and the red card handed out to Portugal's defenseman, Ricardo Costa. Mardona commented that EVERY ref's call in that game, went in Spain's favor. Sour grapes? He had no pony in that race. Watching it up close, I did not see it that way, but hey, what do I know?

[Steve Pollack]

Roy, I think you have it backwards. Have you been hitting the sauce already? The third place match is on Saturday, while the final and championship match is on Sunday.

But I agree, despite some grave mistakes by the refs, it has been a thrilling tournament to this point. Germany looks like the team to beat, and I hope that Uruguay does not advance any further because I hate the way they beat Ghana.

[Roy Hersh]

Sorry Steve, of course you are right. I was going from memory from what I "thought" I saw online last week while overseas.

Anyway, was it due to Suarez that you are against the Uruguyan's winning? I am not a fan of Germany's team (whatsoever) probably because they've been so good/dominant for the last several WC tournaments. I'd like to see someone else get a chance.

I'm hoping to see a finals matchup of The Netherlands and Spain. Spain will be hard pressed to beat the strong German team unless they really come and play a complete 90 minutes. I think the "mo" is with The Netherlands, and like you don't want to see Uruguay again ... unless it is a bottle of their Late Harvest Tannat.

[Steve Pollack]

Yes, I am referring to the hand ball by Suarez which denied Ghana the game winning goal. I think virtually every player would have done the same thing in that situation, but I just can't root for Uruguay now. Their win over Ghana is tainted for me, and I don't want to see them to advance to the finals.

[Marco D.]

Germany does seem like the team to beat. Young, fast, strong and playing like a TEAM. I wish Portugal played like them.

I don't hold the handball from Suarez against him too much. To me, I liken it to the NBA, when a team is tied with 5 seconds left. The opponent has the ball and going for a sure dunk. What do you do? You deliberately foul him and force him to take the free throws, hoping he misses. The choice is a sure loss, or a chance for survival.

Suarez did not hide the fact he handled the ball. He was punished... ejected, but now forced Ghana to take a penalty, hoping they missed. Ghana missed it and Uruguay had a chance for survival.

Compared to the Maradona "Hand of God" goal... he tried to hide the fact that he handled the ball and was never penalized.

[Eric Menchen]

I don't hold the handball from Suarez against him too much. To me, I liken it to the NBA, when a team is tied with 5 seconds left. The opponent has the ball and going for a sure dunk. What do you do? You deliberately foul him and force him to take the free throws, hoping he misses. The choice is a sure loss, or a chance for survival.

I'm not going to call Suarez a cheater. He did what he had to do and it was handled as per the rules of the game. But it does seem like a hollow victory and I'll be routing for the Oranje. Interesting you bring up the basketball parallel. A lot of people don't like the rules in this case and like to draw an analogy to the NBA rule on goaltending. You put your hand up and block the ball on the way down and the basket is awarded automatically. There are no free throws.

The Germans look so dominant. I think a different Spanish team needs to show up if they hope to have any chance of winning.

[Roy Hersh]

Just over an hour away the game between The Netherlands and Uruguay. I hope that The Netherlands win this one, but you just never know.

[Roy Hersh]

A fun first half with one goal for each team. Holland's goal was in impressive kick by their captain and the 2nd half should be equally energizing.

Later ..

Well, Sneijder and team have done it. The 3-2 outcome was made closer by the tenactiy of Uruguay scoring right at the end, but Forlan without Suarez was not up to carrying the whole team on his back offensively.

For tomorrow ... I am looking forward to the game to see if Germany will be AS strong without Muller playing. Spain should not be overlooked, as they have a well-balanced attack and a hot goalie. Tomorrow should be a great game.