For The Love Of Port

Eric,

I won't repeat your quote, but if correct, I have say it pretty much defines why I don't subscribe to his site..

Tom Archer wrote:Eric,

I won't repeat your quote, but if correct, I have say it pretty much defines why I don't subscribe to his site..

That quote comes from this free article at James Sucklings website. Last paragraph.

https://www.jamessuckling.com/wine-tast ... tage-port/

Tom Archer wrote:

What do you guys think?

Strictly speaking, the whole thing is probably copyright. However, Suckling will know that anything that draws people's attention to his site is going to be good for him, so the proper way forward is for someone who already subscribes to his site (- I don't..) to drop him an email requesting permission to reproduce his scores, but not his notes, with a link to his site attached to the piece.

I'd be surprised if he refused..

So I asked for permission and got it.



The scores:

Niepoort (95p)
Quinta do Vesuvio (94p)
Cockburn (94p)
Graham's Stone Terrace (93p)
Dow's Senhora da Ribeira (93p)

As reported on TPF Andresen has withdrawn their 2015 VP as they decided not to bottle it. Even though they had already sent out samples to people.

I have the feeling it is a vintage that is not turning out as good as initially believed and as time goes on those flaws, which weren't showing initially, are starting to show themselves rather quickly now that they approach their second birthday. Perhaps an indication to be careful what you buy from this vintage.

Hi Andy
Although haven't tasted any of Andresen's vp , Mayson does mention they have a history of light and early maturing ports .

Luc Gauthier wrote:Hi Andy
Although haven't tasted any of Andresen's vp , Mayson does mention they have a history of light and early maturing ports .

Yes I am aware of that, but wouldn't that be a "red flag" when even they've decided not to?

It just seems that a number of producers have either decided 2015 wasn't that good after all or 2016 is that much better. Perhaps both?


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See your point .
Does Andresen have the capacity to say make an LBV for 2015 and declare 2016

Luc Gauthier wrote:See your point .
Does Andresen have the capacity to say make an LBV for 2015 and declare 2016

I don't see why they couldn't, but that's just a guess.


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Andy Velebil wrote:

Luc Gauthier wrote:Hi Andy
Although haven't tasted any of Andresen's vp , Mayson does mention they have a history of light and early maturing ports .

Yes I am aware of that, but wouldn't that be a "red flag" when even they've decided not to?

It just seems that a number of producers have either decided 2015 wasn't that good after all or 2016 is that much better. Perhaps both?


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I think that jumping to conclusions. Dirk Niepoort said he made his best vintage port ever... They said this was also because of the early harvest.
Besides i heard 2015 has bad yields and 2016 has better yield. So that could be important.
I think you have to taste it yourself. What i tasted so far was really good. I will also taste Niepoort soon, so I will post notes of that too.

Jasper A. wrote:

Andy Velebil wrote:

Luc Gauthier wrote:Hi Andy
Although haven't tasted any of Andresen's vp , Mayson does mention they have a history of light and early maturing ports .

Yes I am aware of that, but wouldn't that be a "red flag" when even they've decided not to?

It just seems that a number of producers have either decided 2015 wasn't that good after all or 2016 is that much better. Perhaps both?


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I think that jumping to conclusions. Dirk Niepoort said he made his best vintage port ever... They said this was also because of the early harvest.
Besides i heard 2015 has bad yields and 2016 has better yield. So that could be important.
I think you have to taste it yourself. What i tasted so far was really good. I will also taste Niepoort soon, so I will post notes of that too.

I don't think it is at all. Dirk says something similar almost every year. The harvest was early for some because some people were afraid of the possibility of coming rain (which it did..remember the flooding in parts) and what it could do to possibly ruin the harvest. So you either pick early (never a great thing) or you waited to see what happened with the weather. Of course, that is very location dependent. Typically, the farther east one is the less chance of rain at all or at least less amount of rain. And to add to this, this is the Douro with its massive micro climates. So even in not so great years there are always some who end up making some wonderful Ports.

However, overall, it is becoming clear that 2015 is turning out not to be all that great after all. IMO, 2015 is a perfect example why producers wait two winters to see how things settle out with the Ports. What may look nice at the beginning doesn't always turn out to be so nice in the end.

Dirk says something similar almost every year.

Whilst Dirk is not beyond a little mischief, it is clear from our private communications that he is genuinely very pleased with his 2015s

Tom Archer wrote:

Dirk says something similar almost every year.

Whilst Dirk is not beyond a little mischief, it is clear from our private communications that he is genuinely very pleased with his 2015s

And he's told me, and others, the same about other vintages he's produced. So forgive me if I am a bit skeptical of his claim (I believe he made a very good VP, just his claim that it's his best ever is what I am addressing). The fact remains picking early because of incoming weather issues means you are not picking them when you want to. You're picking them because an impending Hurricane was about to dump a ton of rain right as the harvest was fully underway. And on the 15th and 16th heavy rain came. Also, prior to this it was a cooler than normal summer which will slow down the phenological ripening of the grapes. That is, they look good on the outside, but inside maturation will fall behind. So by picking early to avoid the rain means the weather is dictating picking dates not the phenological ripeness of the grapes. It's no different than you or I going to our gardens to pick fruit and saying "Well, I'd rather wait another week or so but I can't so I'll just pick it now." That fruit may taste ok, but it won't be as good as it would have been had you left it there a bit longer.

I'll pick some quotes from Niepoort's 2015 Harvest Reports. I've included Napoles just for reference to see that two places not far apart had very different conditions. But lets focus on Mendiz where the Port grapes come from.

2015
Quinta de Nápoles

The weather conditions of the viticultural year 2015 were very favourable, with sun, heat and low humidity, allowing a homogeneous vegetative growth.

The winter, with rain from March, has replaced a large part of water reserves in the soil. In early spring average temperatures were high and some rain completed the water replacement, allowing a balanced sprouting. After flowering in May, the veraison began in July, rather homogeneous, about two weeks earlier than in the previous year.

One of the particular features of this viticultural year was the vineyard ability to remain hydrated during ripening. In late August, early September, the basal leaves still remained green and moist, with hydrated berries and a thick, firm skin. The balance of musts, the softness of tannins, and the intense colour concentration indicate that this is an exceptional year for Doc Douro Wines.

Carlos Raposo, Tedo, 16.09.2015


Vale de Mendiz

Harvest started early in V. Mendiz on 28th August after a very hot July and August, the first grapes harvested were for Charme and for port wine in the V. Mendiz area from cooler north facing vineyards. The hotter classic port vineyards were exhibiting a certain heat stress, but with the onset of cooler nights maturity advanced in the first few weeks of September under fine conditions and the wines exhibit hard tannins and a lot of colour. Yesterday however there was an intense rain shower so we stopped picking, hopefully within a few days the weather will clear up and fine tune the remaining grapes so as to complete the harvest. At this point our top vineyards have already been harvested but we have only harvested 40% of the vineyards — time will tell — but the year shows a lot of promise so far!

Nick Delaforce, Vale de Mendiz, 16.09.2015

There are a couple things I'll point out from a rather lacking-in-detail harvest report, "fine tune the remaining grapes"...does that mean the ones prior to it weren't quite ready yet? It mentions the maturity advancing in those first few weeks of Sept after suffering hydric stress. That means your grapes were not ripening properly, either the fruit on the outside and/or the pips on inside. As when grapes get too hot they shut down and stop maturing which can mean issues a short time later when harvest time arrives. My question would be, Was there a rush to pick the top grapes picked because of the incoming rain?

I've been thinking about this since yesterday and I want to make sure I am clear about some things. I have no doubt there were some fantastic VP's made in 2015 and I look forward to tasting them. The Douro is a large place and full of micro climates where in all but the worst of years one can make a wonderful Port. My comments regarding the vintage as a whole are a general overall assessment. While I know that it's hard to do such a thing in a place as large as the Douro, it can and should be done at times.

From what I have heard from a variety of different producers since the harvest ended back in 2015 was very mixed signals. 2015 was a very strange growing season due to weather issues. What started out very promising, after harvest and especially once they sat in barrel for a year and then when the 2016 harvest ended, there seemed to be an even larger shift away from 2015. The focus turned to 2016 as looking better overall. I think some producers got stuck between a rock and a hard place with 2015 since they stated very early it was a great vintage and no doubt it would be declared. I venture to guess that this is a good example of why most producers don't like to make predictions too soon about a vintage. A couple winters in barrel can really bring out the good or not so good in a wine. As I've stated earlier, I think this is what happened with 2015. I'll venture another guess that we'll see a smaller than normal amount of standouts in the 95+ range.

Regardless, I have no doubt there has been some fantastic VP's made in 2015. The fun part will be tasting through them and reading what other trusted reviewers and Port lovers have to say about them.

Funny thing, I just returned from nearly 3 weeks in the Iberian Peninsula. While in Spain, there were 32 Portuguese wine judges of the total 320 in the competition. Many of them winemakers, a couple of the most respected wine writers in the country, a few IVDP key players and some people from the wine trade from a wide swath of Portugal's wine regions. They all seemed to have opinions on 2015 vs. 2016 Vintage Ports. I heard a fairly balanced number of pro and con comments from the group re: both vintages.

I spent the following week in Porto, mostly hanging out with friends, but also with some appointments with producers, some very well known as well as a couple very new to VP. Additionally, in discussions with several winemaker friends from the Douro, the 2015 vs. 2016 topic was seemingly one that everyone is happy to talk about. From the compendium of info that I was privy to, there are plenty of people on both sides of the equation.

Mid-next week, I head back to Northern Portugal for more than a month. Lots of blind tasting to do in that time frame, in my rented space. Good, bad or otherwise, I am going to go about this as I have for many years. Zero pre-conceived notions. My report will be solely based on what I smell and taste ... nothing to do with what I have heard or read from others.

I would not be so quick to write off a vintage like 2015, which many do believe was very solid, if not even better than 2016 (in their opinion). OTOH, just as many have told me that 2016 is going to turn out exceptionally well and in time, will blow away 2015! But as we all know, it is way too early to really make any predicitions on the 2016s. It would have been like doing so last May for the 2015s ... and NOBODY in the trade was willing to say a peep at that time. So all the conjecture and speculation and tea leave reading and right and wrong answers about 2016 ... mean nothing ... until we get to taste these vintages side-by-side ... at the same period in time, a year from now. That being said, it won't be until February of 2018 before a sound decision can even be made on the latter vintage being declared. We have all seen what appeared to be fine growing seasons, turn out to be lackluster and vice versa.

Given the growing conditions of 2015 ... at the time of the harvest and shortly after it was completed, many in the trade were quite excited. Now, not as much. Some very well connected individuals felt that there are other reasons that 2015 is now being tossed aside. Conspiracy theorists! That said, the same level of excitement was not even close at the end of 2016. People hoped that the sun and wind would help out, talked about how many times they had to use sulfur treatments throughout much of the growing season, and on the positive side, talked about long hang times and extraordinary balance too. But while it is fun to listen to winemakers and many other opinions ... the proof is in the tasting. Going at that with an open mind is the only true test. In the scheme of life, all we really care about is owning bottles and eventually drinking some of the best Ports made, no matter which of these two vintages they come from.

For those that are making fun of Suckling or his scores ... regardless of what you may think of James, he is still the Port pundit that moves the market the most! With dozens of years invested in promoting Port and thousands upon thousands of Vintage Ports tasted and rated. Sure, everyone has an opinion, whether you feel his scores or anyone else's are high or low ... really, all that matter is whether or not they are consistent, and that applies for their methodology too, when it comes to new vintage evaluations.

It would have been like doing so last May for the 2015s ... and NOBODY in the trade was willing to say a peep at that time.

Who were you talking to? Around that time a note I wrote reads:

"Everyone in the trade is banking a 2015 declaration as a definite, even though the vines have not yet flowered for the 2016 vintage. It feels very premature, especially since one senses that 2015 is merely 'good enough' to declare, and not exceptional"

Tom Archer wrote:

It would have been like doing so last May for the 2015s ... and NOBODY in the trade was willing to say a peep at that time.

Who were you talking to? Around that time a note I wrote reads:

"Everyone in the trade is banking a 2015 declaration as a definite, even though the vines have not yet flowered for the 2016 vintage. It feels very premature, especially since one senses that 2015 is merely 'good enough' to declare, and not exceptional"

Tom
Correct. Many producers were saying 2015 was a sure thing. And for a long time Roy's been saying 2015 was a sure thing based on what he was told by producers.

In the Douro at harvest time in 2015, I recall lots of optimism. But I also remember this was in contrast to what I was reading from outsiders looking in, who were mostly talking about the weather at harvest time.

just to be clear, 2015 is not a Declared year, is that right?

Scheiny S wrote:just to be clear, 2015 is not a Declared year, is that right?

I think we can safely say there is no general declaration for 2015. There are some VPs and SQVPs out there, but plenty of brands that have elected to not produce a 2015 VP.

Added Churchill's Quinta da Gricha and Seara d'Ordens.

Also this is an interesting quote from Axel Probs posted on TPF 1 week ago

Axel P wrote:Just back from the Douro... It seems that some producers are still in line to have their Ports approved. Some even are doing it for the second time. I have some problems with that as all of their 2014 have passed at the first time and are a lot weaker in style.

So we are looking for quite some producers to bottle/ declare soon.