Obstacles to Port procurement
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:58 pm
Besides price and availability, do you run up against other challenges in your Port buying regimen?
For The Love Of Port
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Obstacles to Port procurement
https://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewtopic.php?t=3765
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:05 pm
Like not having unlimited money
Re: Obstacles to Port procurement
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:03 am
No. Well, sometimes my pockets are not as deep as I would prefer.Roy Hersh wrote:Besides price and availability, do you run up against other challenges in your Port buying regimen?
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:31 am
Competition. Some ports here in Quebec are hard to get. Restaurants that buy the cheap stuff in high volume do have priority over passionate customers trough the private agency system here. You need to work hard to get some, it is even harden with some dry wines.
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:58 am
The SAQ chokes any chance of free enterprise !!
It raises the prices of VP to ridiculous levels ( that's why that less than 5% of the SAQ's sales are VP ) , even If you take into account the federal & provincial sales tax and the value of the euro , there's no justification for an additional insane price increase !!!
It raises the prices of VP to ridiculous levels ( that's why that less than 5% of the SAQ's sales are VP ) , even If you take into account the federal & provincial sales tax and the value of the euro , there's no justification for an additional insane price increase !!!
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:20 am
Roy-
I think for me it generally tends to come down to budget. There is such a wealth of wine out there (fortified and non), and only limited funds each month to buy. I don't think availability is too much of a problem for me, as most of the ports that I might seek out are somewhat readily available in either local retail outlets (K&L and Beltramo's have pretty solid selections), or via web-based outfits. Price certainly plays into the budget angle, but more often than not, it's a choice for me about how to spend the monthly wine budget -- several bottles of something less expensive, or fewer bottles (or one) of something more expensive. Interestingly, if I look at Cellar Tracker, it seems that I am much more willing to purchase a expensive bottle of port than I am to purchase an expensive bottle of dry red.
Not sure if those random thoughts make any sense?
Rich
I think for me it generally tends to come down to budget. There is such a wealth of wine out there (fortified and non), and only limited funds each month to buy. I don't think availability is too much of a problem for me, as most of the ports that I might seek out are somewhat readily available in either local retail outlets (K&L and Beltramo's have pretty solid selections), or via web-based outfits. Price certainly plays into the budget angle, but more often than not, it's a choice for me about how to spend the monthly wine budget -- several bottles of something less expensive, or fewer bottles (or one) of something more expensive. Interestingly, if I look at Cellar Tracker, it seems that I am much more willing to purchase a expensive bottle of port than I am to purchase an expensive bottle of dry red.
Not sure if those random thoughts make any sense?
Rich
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:05 pm
Rich,
Not only does your answer make sense...it makes sense for me and I echo them on this topic.
Scott
Not only does your answer make sense...it makes sense for me and I echo them on this topic.
Scott
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:47 pm
Rich, your thoughts make sense to me as well...
Although the difference is that you have Beltramos, K&L Wines and perhaps a couple of other places around your area that sell some good bottled (Weimax has a selection of some different Ports that may be worth checking out due to lower price & being "relative unknowns" but the owner of the store seems very passionate about picking out his own selection of Ports/wines to stock and goes more by taste than by name I got the feeling.)
Selection here in Edmonton is hit & miss... but the price is certainly a factor. I have had a problem that you have not had though Rich... I have had real issues purchasing those expensive bottles of Port (fortunately for my budget I don't enjoy dry reds much, so I don't try an awful lot... and when I find one that suits my palate, I pretty much stick to it so there is not competition for the budget from dry reds.)
One additional issue I have is the CFO. Yep, the Chief Financial Officer, aka "the woman who owns me." You see, we never were real drinkers... neither of us drank wine when we met aside from a very rare bottle of champagne for 'occasions' and wine with the "big three" dinners at the parents' houses (Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving.) When I suddenly developed this addition to Port, it took the wife by surprise.
She likes Port (or claims to... she seems to like the 'good stuff' more than anything) but doesn't LOVE it and really isn't that interested in it to the extent I am. For the sake of keeping peace in the house, the slush fund that goes to purchasing Port is pretty much off the record. She freaked out and could not possibly understand my first 'almost-a-full-case-purchase' of 11 bottles of Fonseca Guimaraens. She even seemed very unimpressed when I explained that I got these bottles at nearly 40% off their normal price. This all despite the fact that this was from the year 2001 - the year of our nuptials, and I tried convincing her that this was for her benefit as well - we could open a bottle every couple of years for our Anniversary. Didn't impress her as I thought it might.
Needless to say, purchases of older, expensive bottles and multi-bottle lots have been severely restricted since that first, uh, experience.
I guess this is why i have stopped drinking beer almost entirely!
Todd
Although the difference is that you have Beltramos, K&L Wines and perhaps a couple of other places around your area that sell some good bottled (Weimax has a selection of some different Ports that may be worth checking out due to lower price & being "relative unknowns" but the owner of the store seems very passionate about picking out his own selection of Ports/wines to stock and goes more by taste than by name I got the feeling.)
Selection here in Edmonton is hit & miss... but the price is certainly a factor. I have had a problem that you have not had though Rich... I have had real issues purchasing those expensive bottles of Port (fortunately for my budget I don't enjoy dry reds much, so I don't try an awful lot... and when I find one that suits my palate, I pretty much stick to it so there is not competition for the budget from dry reds.)
One additional issue I have is the CFO. Yep, the Chief Financial Officer, aka "the woman who owns me." You see, we never were real drinkers... neither of us drank wine when we met aside from a very rare bottle of champagne for 'occasions' and wine with the "big three" dinners at the parents' houses (Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving.) When I suddenly developed this addition to Port, it took the wife by surprise.
She likes Port (or claims to... she seems to like the 'good stuff' more than anything) but doesn't LOVE it and really isn't that interested in it to the extent I am. For the sake of keeping peace in the house, the slush fund that goes to purchasing Port is pretty much off the record. She freaked out and could not possibly understand my first 'almost-a-full-case-purchase' of 11 bottles of Fonseca Guimaraens. She even seemed very unimpressed when I explained that I got these bottles at nearly 40% off their normal price. This all despite the fact that this was from the year 2001 - the year of our nuptials, and I tried convincing her that this was for her benefit as well - we could open a bottle every couple of years for our Anniversary. Didn't impress her as I thought it might.
Needless to say, purchases of older, expensive bottles and multi-bottle lots have been severely restricted since that first, uh, experience.
I guess this is why i have stopped drinking beer almost entirely!
Todd
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:19 am
Todd-
I believe my CFO went to the same school as yours.... My wife and I have gone back and forth many a time on what is an acceptable amount of our disposable income for me to spend on wine in general. Now I will say that she and I both definitely were "drinkers" prior to my more focused passion on wine, but she was not much of a wine drinker. Over time, she has come to enjoy wine quite a bit more, and within the last two years has figured out that she likes red wine in addition to her staple, Chardonnay.
I think what it comes down to for her is she knows I have hobbies, just like she does, and that I won't risk the mortgage and college fund on anything outrageous (hey, I could be into boats, planes or hot rods!) Depending on my income over the years, my wine budget has been lower or higher. The really cool thing about having wine as a hobby, is I can find wine I like in just about all price points, so I never have to forgo the pleasure. :)
Oh, and just for the record, my most expensive bottle of port (actually, this is the most expensive wine I have purchased) was $83 (not counting the bottle I purchased for my dad for his 70th birthday.)
Happy Friday!
R
I believe my CFO went to the same school as yours....
My wife and I have gone back and forth many a time on what is an acceptable amount of our disposable income for me to spend on wine in general. Now I will say that she and I both definitely were "drinkers" prior to my more focused passion on wine, but she was not much of a wine drinker. Over time, she has come to enjoy wine quite a bit more, and within the last two years has figured out that she likes red wine in addition to her staple, Chardonnay.I think what it comes down to for her is she knows I have hobbies, just like she does, and that I won't risk the mortgage and college fund on anything outrageous (hey, I could be into boats, planes or hot rods!) Depending on my income over the years, my wine budget has been lower or higher. The really cool thing about having wine as a hobby, is I can find wine I like in just about all price points, so I never have to forgo the pleasure. :)
Oh, and just for the record, my most expensive bottle of port (actually, this is the most expensive wine I have purchased) was $83 (not counting the bottle I purchased for my dad for his 70th birthday.)
Happy Friday!
R
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:05 am
Provenance.
After getting burned early on a couple of bottlings ('66 Fonseca, '77 Smith Woodhouse) I decided it was 'safer' to purchase, cellar and drink from my own stash. I'm finally approaching the beginning of a long drinking window (77s and 85s).
If you're going to buy older bottles, know the source or try one before stocking up.
After getting burned early on a couple of bottlings ('66 Fonseca, '77 Smith Woodhouse) I decided it was 'safer' to purchase, cellar and drink from my own stash. I'm finally approaching the beginning of a long drinking window (77s and 85s).
If you're going to buy older bottles, know the source or try one before stocking up.
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:24 am
Mike,
Provenance is a great topic and a fine answer in the scheme of this thread.
I am also getting the sense that there is a very real issue about wine/Port purchasing and budget.
Last year it was mentioned about setting up a FTLOP buyers "consortium" and I took that to heart and have been quietly, slowly but steadily watering the seeds on a few different fronts to see if we can make this a reality. I am unable to share the fruits of momentum yet, as it is still quite premature while logisitics, legalities and many other factors like the handling of orders are discussed further.
That said, my biggest concern remains how to make this site even more valuable by providing perfect provenance Port at reasonable prices ... while at the same time NOT losing my "perceived" integrity of my critiquing Ports, which is my true love in the newsletter, and possibly why there are currently so many readers. This dilemma is not easy to get past.
Anyway, I digress. Budget and having enough discretionary income for Port is certainly a real dynamic that we ALL share. Hopefully, in 2008 FTLOP will be able to present a viable alternative for Port lovers at least in the USA and hopefully throughout Canada too.
Provenance is a great topic and a fine answer in the scheme of this thread.
I am also getting the sense that there is a very real issue about wine/Port purchasing and budget.
Last year it was mentioned about setting up a FTLOP buyers "consortium" and I took that to heart and have been quietly, slowly but steadily watering the seeds on a few different fronts to see if we can make this a reality. I am unable to share the fruits of momentum yet, as it is still quite premature while logisitics, legalities and many other factors like the handling of orders are discussed further.
That said, my biggest concern remains how to make this site even more valuable by providing perfect provenance Port at reasonable prices ... while at the same time NOT losing my "perceived" integrity of my critiquing Ports, which is my true love in the newsletter, and possibly why there are currently so many readers. This dilemma is not easy to get past.
Anyway, I digress. Budget and having enough discretionary income for Port is certainly a real dynamic that we ALL share. Hopefully, in 2008 FTLOP will be able to present a viable alternative for Port lovers at least in the USA and hopefully throughout Canada too.
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Rich,Rich Greenberg wrote: Interestingly, if I look at Cellar Tracker, it seems that I am much more willing to purchase a expensive bottle of port than I am to purchase an expensive bottle of dry red.
Rich
how right you are, and the same applies in my case. although this year I have made a half hearted attempt to buy more higher end dry wines. I say half-hearted because everytime I see a dry wine i want to buy, a good deal on Port comes my way and i go for the Port every time...go figure
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:27 am
I know this has been spoken about before, but I'm not buying recent harvest vintages because I may not be around when they are mature. I like mine with considerable age so the 97's are the last vintage I've bought in quantity. Recently been getting more wood aged Ports and Madeiras.
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:43 am
Hvaing a heated passion for red wine (espensive french stuff) and an increasing interest in white wine also, port just has a hard time competing for a place in my already limited budget. I'm trying to build a balanced cellar and not everyone (to my astonishment) drink port.
However, I sometimes go for the lookout for alternatives to port. (I may be treading a dangerous path here ) And in Denmarks perhaps best assorted wine dealer's (Sigurd Müller), I found som Pineau des Charentes from Beaulon. I bought a 1997 Vintage (actually more like a "colheita")and a 10yo and they were both VERY interesting. First of all, they were much cheaper than any of the Colheitas or 10yo ports at the dealers (or most other places in DK too), second they were... different. They weren't as warm as port can be (not as alcoholic - 18% if memory serves). But as they were made from different grapes (I don't know which) they had remarkedly different notes - especially on on the front palate and in the aftertaste.
This experience got me thinking that there are alternatives to port that can compete in both quality and price, yet goes with the same dishes/alone.
Sadly I now live in the other end of the country, and I've found out, that Pineau isn't just Pineau. Like port there's cheap S**T out there, that's better off destilled or something.
However, let this be a recommendation from me - try Beaulon's Pineau des Charentes. They also make a 20yo. Haven't tried that one however.
However, I sometimes go for the lookout for alternatives to port. (I may be treading a dangerous path here
) And in Denmarks perhaps best assorted wine dealer's (Sigurd Müller), I found som Pineau des Charentes from Beaulon. I bought a 1997 Vintage (actually more like a "colheita")and a 10yo and they were both VERY interesting. First of all, they were much cheaper than any of the Colheitas or 10yo ports at the dealers (or most other places in DK too), second they were... different. They weren't as warm as port can be (not as alcoholic - 18% if memory serves). But as they were made from different grapes (I don't know which) they had remarkedly different notes - especially on on the front palate and in the aftertaste.This experience got me thinking that there are alternatives to port that can compete in both quality and price, yet goes with the same dishes/alone.
Sadly I now live in the other end of the country, and I've found out, that Pineau isn't just Pineau. Like port there's cheap S**T out there, that's better off destilled or something.
However, let this be a recommendation from me - try Beaulon's Pineau des Charentes. They also make a 20yo. Haven't tried that one however.
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:08 pm
Question: Obstacles to Port procurement
Answer: Women
Answer: Women
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:08 pm
Derek,
A very astute observation. It amazes me when I look back and realize how little Port I have actually purchased since getting married, compared to what I used to buy. Sure, having kids does take a serious bite out of the wallet too.
Remember the old thread on "sneaking" wine into one's home or cellar? Too funny!
A very astute observation. It amazes me when I look back and realize how little Port I have actually purchased since getting married, compared to what I used to buy. Sure, having kids does take a serious bite out of the wallet too.
Remember the old thread on "sneaking" wine into one's home or cellar? Too funny!
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:10 pm
If this thread is found, I need to see it for tips for when I do just this thing!!!Roy Hersh wrote:Remember the old thread on "sneaking" wine into one's home or cellar? Too funny!
Todd
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:20 am
Doesn't sound like a healthy relationship to me...Roy Hersh wrote:Remember the old thread on "sneaking" wine into one's home or cellar? Too funny!
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:35 am
Actually, sometimes it makes for a MUCH healthier relationship.
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:58 pm
Nikolaj, are you married? If so, perhaps you have a VERY understanding wife.Roy Hersh wrote:Actually, sometimes it makes for a MUCH healthier relationship.
Every time I roll in the door with a bottle of Port, my wife's eyebrows are raised and I can almost rea the thoughts in her mind: "and you gave me s#!t for getting a $100 haircut???"
Yes, Roy's words are wise... sometimes it is just better for the relationship if the women have no clue at how much that bottle of Noval Nacional actually costs!
Todd