For The Love Of Port

Hi,

I am about to buy these two wine:

Porto Tawny Reserve Warre's 1972 and Porto Colheita Quinta do Castelinho 1963. Anyone here had an opportunity to taste one of them? how about their prime time..too late now?

Thanks

Stéphane

stephane rich wrote: Porto Tawny Reserve Warre's 1972 and Porto Colheita Quinta do Castelinho 1963. Anyone here had an opportunity to taste one of them? how about their prime time..too late now?

As those are both barrel aged wines, neither need be past its prime. They could be excellent. But the bottling year would be good to know to make a more informed decision. Is the bottling year recent?

Eric Menchen wrote:

stephane rich wrote: Porto Tawny Reserve Warre's 1972 and Porto Colheita Quinta do Castelinho 1963. Anyone here had an opportunity to taste one of them? how about their prime time..too late now?

As those are both barrel aged wines, neither need be past its prime. They could be excellent. But the bottling year would be good to know to make a more informed decision. Is the bottling year recent?

The 1963 in 2000 and the Warres in 1999

Castelinho 1963 was never mind blowing...I would avoid unless the price is ridiculous. The Warre's should be interesting, I had it seral time, but not recently, I always liked it very much.

stephane rich wrote:Porto Tawny Reserve Warre's 1972 and Porto Colheita Quinta do Castelinho 1963. Anyone here had an opportunity to taste one of them? how about their prime time..too late now?

You'll get a range of views on this; the primary point of note is the bottling dates, as already mentioned. Tawnies are ready for drinking when bottled, with the expectation of being drunk in the next couple of years; most would likely consider that their peak; they will however last for a very long time in the bottle, typically with a slow change of character - and this is where the opinion differences will come in, as to how/whether they "mature" further, and whether the change is liked or disliked, a matter of preference.

The general sentiment I would expect would be that the wines will be fine, should still be very good to drink, but will not be in their prime which would have been immediately after bottling.

Thank you all for your feedback. I finally decided to buy them so will see how they turn out. Planning on drinking the 63 at my birthday in September, will get back then to keep you posted on how it was.

The Warre sounds pretty neat. 1972 is unique vintage that most have never tried.

Moses Botbol wrote:The Warre sounds pretty neat. 1972 is unique vintage that most have never tried.

Especially that in 2012 I think they released under Denmark label only.

To my palate, recently bottled tawnies tend to be raw and unappealing - with age they usually soften and become much more agreeable.

I say 'usually' because a lot hinges on the degree of filtration. Producers like Niepoort use very little filtration - strained more than filtered - and their tawnies age wonderfully. The Portuguese houses mostly go easy on filtration, whereas the Symingtons have a bad habit of over filtering them.

Thus I would be wary of the Warre '72 bottled in '99 - I certainly wouldn't pay big money for it. The Castelhino '63 is not a wine I've tried, but I would have more confidence in it than the Warre..

Tom Archer wrote:To my palate, recently bottled tawnies tend to be raw and unappealing - with age they usually soften and become much more agreeable.

I say 'usually' because a lot hinges on the degree of filtration. Producers like Niepoort use very little filtration - strained more than filtered - and their tawnies age wonderfully. The Portuguese houses mostly go easy on filtration, whereas the Symingtons have a bad habit of over filtering them.

Thus I would be wary of the Warre '72 bottled in '99 - I certainly wouldn't pay big money for it. The Castelhino '63 is not a wine I've tried, but I would have more confidence in it than the Warre..

I think your confusing cold stabalizing with filtering. The previous causes far more damage to the taste of a wine than the latter. But it also makes it more stable to ship around the world and sit on the shelf without bottle variation showing. Especially if one is using clear glass bottles like what is popular right now.

You're spot on with freshly bottled Tawny's. That crisp acidity is what I really like in them right after being bottled. Obviously not everyone does, like yourself. That just means I'll sample them when young for you and you can let me know how they've aged down the road.

I think your confusing cold stabalizing with filtering.

I'm not sure as to the extent to which the removal of excess tartrates through cold stabilisation affects the aging potential of port. Filtration though is a killer..

Tom Archer wrote:

I think your confusing cold stabalizing with filtering.

I'm not sure as to the extent to which the removal of excess tartrates through cold stabilisation affects the aging potential of port. Filtration though is a killer..

Cold Stabilizing is like the nuclear option of wine. It basically stops it in time so that little as possible changes take place in bottle. Of course heavy filtration added on top of C.S. doesn't help the situation.

Don't know if I agree with your opinion on cold stabilization, it being the "nuclear option." That's like saying a bottle is permanently damaged after you stick it in the fridge. Now at refrigerator temps, there is very slow, if minimal change due to the thermodynamics; but once back at cellar temps, normal maturation should continue. Are you referring to tartrate precipitation? The tartaric acid is buffered in solution so there's not a huge change in pH if the tartrates precipitate out.

Eric Ifune wrote:Don't know if I agree with your opinion on cold stabilization, it being the "nuclear option."

+1, although admittedly my experience is with beer, where cold stabilization basically enhances how much things like yeast settle out.