possible fake?

terrance creighton · Post by **terrance creighton** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:31 pm

So I got this 1981 Burmester Colheita from my wife for xmas. She ordered it from Europa Wine Merchant in Portland, OR.

A real nice gift, but we're thinking it might possibly be fake. The label is really faded, looks of very poor quality print, it's crocked, the IDVP seal is unsticking and the foil is loose and slides around fairly easy. It is a 375ml, so maybe they generally do that for smaller bottles.

I also noticed that the bottle here in the picture - http://wineshop.linerandelsen.com/burme ... p9171.aspx - is numbered 494642. The bottle I have is numbered 494640. Maybe they would only ship a few bottles over here in the states though.

So I just wanted to send a post to see what you guys think. Are 375ml's generally treated more poorly or maybe this was possibly in the retail store for a while under poor conditions (bottled 2014)?

It's not like this is a high end bottle or producer, so I don't know why there would be fakes of these going around, but just wanted to get your opinions.

Thanks for any help.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:42 pm

Without me or others speculating, (I do know the shop, Liner & Elsen in Portland, but not the name Europa Wine Merchant) I have sent an email to someone at Sogevinus that will give me their opinion and I'll print it here.

Why have you not been to any of our local tasting events?

Roy

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:44 pm

If it was stored in the sun or other light the label will fade. Seen that many times.

Capsule spinning is no big deal. Many capsules do that.

Seen lots of Selo's come unglued or loose. So that's not a major issue.

Label appears to be genuine.

Most likely No one would fake such an inexpensive Port so I highly doubt it's a fake. Most likely poor storage in light faded the label.

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Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:45 pm

Agree totally, but easy to ask the experts in PT and get a 2nd opinion from someone that will know for sure.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:47 pm

Darn cell phone, I hit wrong button. Give it a go and let us know how it is. Also when you open it note what condition the T-Cork is in (totally saturated, only the bottom tip, etc).

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terrance creighton · Post by **terrance creighton** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:52 pm

Thanks for the replies. The whole idea of someone making a fake of this and then selling it to shops is funny, but I keep looking at the label and going, "this looks like I printed this off my home printer". Probably just poor lighting like you said Andy.

Man, thanks Roy, I don't mean to be a bother to anybody at the importer though. I was actually thinking that Liner & Elsen was on the east coast...not sure why, so the close number on the seal makes more sense with them also in Portland.
How do I hear about the local tasting events? I check the offsite planner page sometimes and events around the city, but haven't seen much. Nice GreatNWWine interview btw.

I'll post some notes after I open it.

Eric Menchen · Post by **Eric Menchen** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:27 pm

I've had plenty of loose selos, and maybe a loose capsule or two.

If I printed on my home inkjet, the ink would smudge in water. If it was laser printed, you might be able to see color process screens, and the texture would probably feel a little different. But I don't have a recent Burmester colheita to look at for possible distinctions from a laser print.

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Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:22 am

It looks just like other similar vintage labels of this in Cellartracker.com, so I'd say it's real, just faded.

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:24 am

I feel sorry for whomever is desperate enough to fake '81 Burmester Colheita half bottle. '52 Delaforce or or an Older Noval; sure I guess... Would actually be kind of neat if it was fake (considering it's not my bottle), but I would side with it being original.

terrance creighton · Post by **terrance creighton** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:37 am

See, that's the genius of it, if it was a 52 Delaforce, you know he wouldn't be able to pass it off.

(Liam Neeson/Jon Voight Seinfeld reference - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r52sOHiAaHM)

Bradley Bogdan · Post by **Bradley Bogdan** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:28 am

terrance creighton wrote:See, that's the genius of it, if it was a 52 Delaforce, you know he wouldn't be able to pass it off.

(Liam Neeson/Jon Voight Seinfeld reference - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r52sOHiAaHM)

Great reference, haha

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Post by **Roy Hersh** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:59 am

Important you see this and reply to me by email: Portolover@aol.com.

Here was the response from Portugal:

Do you think we can get the bottle in question? We will of course send another one to replace it! Can you please put us in contact with your friend? I'm not working this week but if you can please copy in your reply to Sonia, she will handle this right away.

So while they are not saying it is a fake, they certainly have me quite curious and the fact it is heading in this direction has me thinking they believe that at least it could be. Let's chat by email ... please put: Possible Fake Port in the subject line!

Thanks,

Roy

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:13 am

Roy Hersh wrote:Important you see this and reply to me by email: Portolover@aol.com.

Here was the response from Portugal:
Do you think we can get the bottle in question? We will of course send another one to replace it! Can you please put us in contact with your friend? I'm not working this week but if you can please copy in your reply to Sonia, she will handle this right away.
So while they are not saying it is a fake, they certainly have me quite curious and the fact it is heading in this direction has me thinking they believe that at least it could be. Let's chat by email ... please put: Possible Fake Port in the subject line!

Thanks,

Roy

Interesting. Look forward to their reply after they get it and inspect it.

terrance creighton · Post by **terrance creighton** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:51 am

wow, interesting. e-mail sent.

Post by **Glenn E.** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:30 pm

Can't wait to hear how this all turns out!

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:01 pm

Glenn E. wrote:Can't wait to hear how this all turns out!

No kidding

Eric Menchen · Post by **Eric Menchen** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:04 pm

So I finally looked at that label on a big screen and must say it does look a little crude and not just faded. Could it have worn that way from the texture of the paper? Interesting ...

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Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:55 am

How much does this port cost normally? Like $40 in .375?

Allan Engelsted Laurents · Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:44 pm

Please! Let it be a legit bottle.
It would be very frustating to buy ordinary bottles without being 100% sure.

Looking forward to the answer from Burmester.

Eric Ifune · Post by **Eric Ifune** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:09 pm

There are quite a few fake inexpensive wines. They go for volume rather than high prices.

For The Love Of Port

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