How many of you buy and hold?

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:20 am

I can honestly say there is NO way I could leave a bottle of ANYTHING for 20 years..

As much as I'd prefer knowing it's been properly stored (at my place), and as much $$$ I'd save, I just don't have the will power..

So, I'll pay more and buy the "drink now" Ports..

Stuart Chatfield · Post by **Stuart Chatfield** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:33 am

I'm with you, Doug, though I think we're in the minority here.

If I win the lotto I'm going to buy a house with a big cellar and fill it with port of all ages and sit back with pleasure watching it get dusty whilst cracking open the odd one every now and again.

However, for now I'll just have to sit back sip my 60s and 66s that cost only about $20 more than the '03s.

However, it's not about the willpower of avoiding temptation for me - its financial reality. I just know that if I bought for the future I could afford no mature bottles for now and I'd have to go teetotal while I wait for the dust to build up on the young bottles!

That said, my policy depends on regular good vintages and port staying out of fashion. I dread the thought of a young celebrity being photographed in a nightclub drinking port from the bottle with a straw in case port goes the same way as Louis Roederer Cristal since all the pop singers and sports stars starting quaffing that.

I have heard that Charlotte Church has started drinking a port "cocktail" though - a toe-curling moment for us limeys who can picture that

.

Harris Ueng · Post by **Harris Ueng** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:00 am

I'm with you guys in that I find the financial reality in the lopsided pricing (a la 03's v. old, prime vintages) to be seriously off-putting.

I'm also new at this game and, earlier this year, dove into buying a few bottles of 03's en primeur, but I'll tell you I came to my senses quickly and that game ended fast.

I don't mind paying a bit more to have someone else store it up for several decades for me. Even the wine merchants that purchase these from private collectors that can show "provenance" offer these wines at a genuine value compared to new 03's.

You're right, though, Stuart, in saying that this is dependent of ports staying out of fashion.

Also, I don't drink port on a constant basis, so paying some extra dollars every once in a long while doesn't break the bank for me. Whereas, if you're a serious port drinker, I imagine a few bottles of '63's at retail price adds up quickly... unless you've won the lotto of course, or are independently wealthy...

Jason Brandt Lewis · Post by **Jason Brandt Lewis** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:26 am

I started buying Vintage Porto with the release of the 1970 vintage, and I still have some in my cellar.

Cheers,
Jason

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:39 am

I started buying VP with the 97 Vintage. I buy around 20-30 bottles in declared years to cellar them. I also buy 5-10 bottles of non declared vintages. For me in Quebec and most of Canada, old vintage port is just not affordable, we have to start buying them young if we want to taste it when it will be 20+ years old. Until recently where my father took vacation in the USA and another friend who brought me back the bottles sold by Roy's friend Josh, my old Vintage experience where very limited. So now I was able to taste Taylor 1970 and 1977 for 3 times less than in my province Yum! Yum!

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:56 pm

a toe-curling moment for us limeys who can picture that .

You mean like Canadians picturing warm beer? :)

I don't mind paying a bit more to have someone else store it up for several decades for me.

This idea has merit.. It would be out of my hands, then..

And hopefully the business will still be around for several decades.. LOL

Does anybody know what the Dow 1983 VP retailed for back then?

Now it's $90 Cdn ($76 US)..

Harris Ueng · Post by **Harris Ueng** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:07 pm

Ah, I didn't quite mean literally as a cellaring business. :o I meant more as if some private collector decides he/she wants to unload some port that the individual doesn't want any more, they sell it to a wine merchant who in turn would sell it to me at market rates. Right now, though more expensive, those market rates certainly don't reflect the cost of cellaring them for 50 years along with all the associated transportation costs, which to me, makes them a worthwhile bargain.

Some of the merchants I purchase from, purchase obscure or old vintage wines from private collectors. Do I check on its provenance? Can't say I have. I know serious collectors see a whole slew of problems with this and consider it a sin, but I'm not a serious collector, and the process has suited me fine for now. :)

As far paying someone to cellar my wines, I guess that's already happening, as you can purchase cellar/storage space at various places here in the SF Bay Area. A local merchant here, K&L, also rents space.

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:03 pm

As for PAYING someone to cellar my wines

THAT'S what I thought you meant..

They do it in Vancouver, too..

But no..

I'd probably have to kick in extra so they would deny me access, under any circumstances, until the alotted cellaring time was up.. :)

Stuart Chatfield · Post by **Stuart Chatfield** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:45 am

Doug Zdanivsky wrote:
You mean like Canadians picturing warm beer? :)

:idea: So you don't like warm beer? Maybe that explains why when my drinking friend from Ontario visits he empties my decanter of single malt and raids my wine collection, but tells me he couldn't possibly deprive me of a single bottle of my beer......I thought it was an act of kindness.

You ought to try a pint of, say, "Harveys Sussex", "Fullers Chiswick" or "Youngs Ordinary". You've not lived until you have - especially when not too cold.

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:08 am

You're right.. I will have to try them..

Soon, I hope.. And I won't knock it till I try it..

But for now, I can't imagine tepid beer being any good..

Stuart Chatfield · Post by **Stuart Chatfield** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:44 am

OK, in return I'll try a bottle of that Canadian ice wine my friend keeps raving about.

I think it has now been un-banned in England

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:18 am

One can contrive all manner of spurious excuses for maintaining a well stocked cellar.

But I think for most people (myself included) the honest answer is that we enjoy collecting bottles as well as consuming them.

It makes abundant good sense to buy as you need, and never have more than a handful of bottles in your possession at one time.

But I don't, and however many times I tell myself to stop buying more than I drink. I keep breaking the rule.

Now I've allocated part of my cellar to port, and that part can only hold about 700 bottles, so that will be it, finish, no more, finito.....

...maybe!

Justin Willott · Post by **Justin Willott** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:27 pm

Looking forward to hearing about your next purchase.

I too take pleasure from accumulating and holding bottles rather than just buying to drink in the near future.

700 bottles of port is impressive, when did you start collecting?

I have only built up my port collection in the last few years (although it includes vintages back to 1970) so I'm looking forward to the days when the drink/buy ratio flips round.

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:40 pm

I started collecting very gradually, and at no significant rate for many years. I think my first bottle of VP was a Fonseca '70 acquired about 25 years ago, and long since drunk.

My most recent purchase was a case of Grahams '85 at Bonhams auction yesterday.

Stuart Chatfield · Post by **Stuart Chatfield** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:38 am

I'd add that despite the fact that I've turned against buying in bond, I do have about 250 bottles of mature port. After all, if you only bought to drink the next day you wouldn't have a choice!

My guess is 250, because that's the capacity of my Eurocave! As soon as 12 slots appear it's back to Christies again!

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:40 am

I'm definately more of a drinker than a collector..

I like buying them, but only because I want to be ready for every occasion, every different type of meal, etc..

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:21 pm

I prefer to buy and hold. I did not start buying VP until the early part of the 1980s. I still own the first bottle I purchased, which was a 1977 Taylor. I will drink it with my wife and daughter someday in 15 to 20 more years.

I remember paying about 15-20 dollars for the 1983s for the person above that asked.

My VP holdings are much smaller than you'd think and are somewhere near 60 cases, going back to 1863. Most though are in the 1966 to 1994 range.

Doug Zdanivsky · Post by **Doug Zdanivsky** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:03 am

I remember paying about 15-20 dollars for the 1983s

Hmm.. Not bad..

Still, that's not as great an appreciation as I would have thought, taking inflation into account..

Why are the Fonseca 2000's so expensive right from the get go?

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:23 pm

Many of the folks who posted on this topic are now lurkers or have let our midst. It is all good, but I think that we have so many new members now that it is time to revisit this topic.

Thanks!

Garrick M. · Post by **Garrick M.** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:08 pm

I would believe that I am a buy and hold type of guy. I am the same way with my cigars. I like knowing where it came from and the thrill of the chase.