New name for Unfiltered/Traditional LBV required

[Alex K.]

On another thread it was noted that unfiltered LBV gets mixed up with ordinary LBV which retails at about half the price. We now need gto come up with something new which we can present to the Port trade to help them market it better. I am sure that they will show their appreciation, in the only way that we would find acceptable, when it goes down a storm at Asda.

[Derek T.]

The official name is now "Bottle Matured" Late Bottled Vintage - the first two words being a sub-category within the calssification described by the last three words. Are you advocating an entirely separate classification for BMLBV? If so, what about "Vintage Crusted Port" ?

The term "Traditional" is now against the law and it's use is punishable by death in VNG

Derek

[Tom Archer]

It's a tricky one this..

Ringing the changes of the existing port lexicon doesn't really come up with anything that could not be accused of being either misleading or confusing.

Given that the name has to stand out on the supermarket shelf AND give the right impression to the prospective buyer, my best thought so far for an alternative to the over-long 'Bottle Matured Late Bottled Vintage Port' is to simply call it:

'Cellared Port'

This is technically accurate for a bottle matured wine, and to my mind gives the right initial impression.

The technical detail of how it's made can then be left to the now ubiquitous back label.

Tom

[Tom Archer]

PS

I'll claim copyright on that name - my fee for it's use will be one bottle per pipe shipped

Tom

[Ronald Wortel]

Let me throw in some controversy. We don't need a new name for unfiltered (or bottle aged) LBV at all. We need a new name for FILTERED LBV.

Unfiltered LBV is most true to it's name. It is made in the same way as Vintage Port, it only spends more time in barrel, hence LATE Bottled Vintage. The filtered LBV is the real trouble. These ports do not have any resemblance to VP at all. Due to the filtration, much of the character of the port and the vintage is removed. It is more alike a Reserve Ruby port. The name Late Bottled Vintage on these bottles is just as misleading as the (now forbidden) name Vintage Character was. Moreover, the price drop of these filtered LBV's put them even more in the same waters as reserve rubies. I would say: send out a new regulation that states: "All Late Bottled Vintages have to be unfiltered and bottled between the fourth and sixth year after harvest. The filtered counterparts fall within the category Special Reserve. Producers are free to mention the year of harvest on the bottle if the grapes are sourced from one single harvest."

That would clear up some misunderstanding. :)

[Tom Archer]

...trouble is, filtered LBV is a very big seller. The producers would not want to spoil the market with a name change.

Also, removing the cheaper end of the sector won't make the consumer believe it's worth paying more for -

- so it has to be the good stuff that gets the image makeover.

Tom

[Todd Pettinger]

Ronald makes a very good point here... Soild thinking and reasoning behind it...

The filtered LBV is the real trouble. These ports do not have any resemblance to VP at all. Due to the filtration, much of the character of the port and the vintage is removed. It is more alike a Reserve Ruby port. The name Late Bottled Vintage on these bottles is just as misleading as the (now forbidden) name Vintage Character was. Moreover, the price drop of these filtered LBV's put them even more in the same waters as reserve rubies. I would say: send out a new regulation that states: "All Late Bottled Vintages have to be unfiltered and bottled between the fourth and sixth year after harvest. The filtered counterparts fall within the category Special Reserve. Producers are free to mention the year of harvest on the bottle if the grapes are sourced from one single harvest."

My own feeling is that Ronald is correct. I would like to see the LBVs that are filtered change name for better accuracy

Tom makes a great counter-point though...

...trouble is, filtered LBV is a very big seller. The producers would not want to spoil the market with a name change.

This brings me back to Ronald's quote:

That would clear up some misunderstanding. Smile

We have to remember that these producers are in business and perhaps there is very little motivator for them to change the name to remove ubiquity... There may be loads of additional money to be made in keeping the name of a better product associated with one that is a little less superior. :twisted: Maybe they don't WANT to remove confusion...

Todd

[Roy Hersh]

I'll claim copyright on that name - my fee for it's use will be one bottle per pipe shipped

If that is the case, you guys owe me a few dollars as I was the first to put VP on the net back in 1995. Up until then, everyone was just calling it Vintage Port for some reason. 8)

[Andy Velebil]

Maybe they don't WANT to remove confusion...

My thoughts excatly. Why change a name that suggests the LBV is of VP quality. From a marketing stance, that is excatly what the name Late Bottled Vintage Port does.

[Tom Archer]

But..

The filtered LBV market has become the scene of some aggressive pricing, which has doubtless pared margins - so it is probably viewed as a flawed gem by the producers.

The unfiltered, bottle matured product has a price base that amply rewards the producers for their capital tie-up -

- but it does not appear to be selling that well.

The notion that the status quo marries with the producers' grand design does not ring true to my mind.

Tom

[Andy Velebil]

But a "Loss-Leader" can be more profitable in the long run.

- but it does not appear to be selling that well.

In the US, these sell quite well, especially with the upswing in VP release prices.

[Todd Pettinger]

After all the points and counter-points, maybe there is no change necessary, but the requirement to include on the front label, in a decent-sized font, in a conspicuous placement, whether the LBV is filtered or unfiltered?

Honestly, we all know the difference. The story can be told, as Tom says, on the back label, but if there was a requirement to have the word "filtered" or "unfiltered" on the front label, around the place where the port is described as a Late Bottled Vintage, then this would prevent many of us from having to search out this information in the small type on the front label or scanning the entire back label, which is typically just marketing anyway.

Todd

[Derek T.]

OK, so Vintage Crusted didn't capture the imagination :?

To be honest, I think the now outlawed "Traditional" was fairly close to what we need here. Port wine survives on tradition. It matters not that there is almost no tradition in the LBV style. Bt the description does evoke the sort of attributes that we want to assign to this product. Bottle Matured means nothing to anyone whilst "Traditional" means - just like Mamma used to make

Or, what about Vintage Reserve ?

Derek

[Alex K.]

"Reserve" says "Ruby" to me, which will put off Portheads.

However, it does start to go in the right direction. I think 'Vintage' has to be in the name but "Crusted" is too old-fashioned and fusty. How about "Pipe-Aged Vintage"?

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

"Pipe-Aged Vintage"?

I like that.

[Todd Pettinger]

How about "Pipe-Aged Vintage"?

In my mind, there is little difference between that and "Late Bottled." Both are technically true, Single harvest, allowed to mature longer in pipe than a Vintage Port.

If we're truly just talking the difference between an LBV that has been filtered and one that is unfiltered and may mature in-bottle, then it makes less sense to change the name of LBV more sense to add a descriptor to the front of LBV. Does it not?

Todd

[Alex K.]

The idea is to distinguish between the two even if the names mean exactly the same thing, whilst moving away from the name Late-Bottled Vintage which has been tarnished. The difference being that PAV is unfiltered whilst LBV is filtered. It also has a catchy abbreviation and we can all be Pavvers.

[Derek T.]

"Pipe-Aged Vintage" doesn't work I'm affraid, because LBV isn't normally matured in Pipes, it is matured in large oak vats (tonnel's?) like this old disused one which sits outside Quinta do Portal....



Derek

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Tonnel-Aged Port, which portaholics keep on ‘tap’.

[Alex K.]

Vat-Aged Port. Those that drink it could be Vapids.