Have you purchased any 2004 VPs yet?

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:26 pm

I realize they are not easy to find, but some are in the market at this point, while others will ship this fall. I am just wondering if you are seeing them at retail and if so, are the prices compelling enough to drink these early?

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:41 pm

No.

I'm in shut-down on new wine at this point. I would like to buy new wine at first release, but in the current market the huge financial gulf between the primary and secondary market is unacceptable.

I will buy 2004's - eventually - but I'll let others take the financial loss.

..Pity really

Tom

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:29 pm

They are not too difficult to find, but the price gaps between retailers I've seen has been large at times. I did pick up the following at decent prices though,

2004 Dow Porto Vintage Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira (got cheap at auction)
2004 Quinta do Vesuvio Porto Vintage

I do wish they would drop the prices on these SQVP's. The Vesuvio was about $45 a bottle. Which is the cheapest I've seen it here in the states. I would not pay that much again for any further 2004's. I only paid that much because I really wanted those bottles. Before I buy more, I will either wait for a good deal or for the auction market to kick in. I think around $30-35 would be a fair value for a second rate VP.

(edit for spelling error)

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:06 pm

I am waiting for them but nothing to report here in Quebec. Unfortunately here the situation is not great for VP as it was when the 94 and 97 sold very fast. People tends to buy much more Tawny style and LBV that they used to. With the 2003 sitting on the shelves for 2 years now, I'm not sure they plan to import the 2004

Even some 2003 where not supposed to enter the market as some guys at the SAQ thought that there was still too much of the 2000 to sell of that brand, I guess you can see the picture ...

Ontario is a growing market for Port and they are much more dynamic than Quebec, especially on the marketing as they are very efficient to sell it.

I'll try to look to some private importers as VP from Qta do Vale Meao and Qta do Vale Dona Maria should arrive.... hopefuly.

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:46 pm

I have only seen the Roriz 2004 and heard rumours of the Vesuvio "coming" to Alberta...

The Roriz seems to be moderately priced for a SQVP ($49.99 Cdn) but I haven't picked any up at this point. Just hoping the price will come down a tad on the 2003s so I can pick up a case or ten for myself and the boy.

Todd

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:27 pm

I have only seen the Vesuvio and the Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira for sale, and have not purchased any ports from 04 yet. I'm holding off on 2004, as there are a lot of older SQVP ports I can still get for similar prices, and 97/00/03 regulars as well (97 in particular). I was tempted by the Vesuvio to fill in the cellar vertical, but not enough to bite.

However, if the Malvedos was released I would get some in a hot second.

Jay

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:46 am

I've just checked wine-searcher..

The best price I can find for Senhora da Ribeira 2004 is about £26/bottle (tax paid). I'm pretty confident that in a few years time I'll be able to secure an auction lot for around half that price - possibly less than half.

Meanwhile my money can be put to work elsewhere and there's more space in my cellar for wines that are already mature..

I'd like to know a little bit more about the middle-men in the system - I would love to see the Symingtons wholesale (ex. VNG) price list (and their discount structure)

I have a little suspicion that whilst the mass market products are being distributed with reasonable efficiency, the same can not be said for VP.

Tom

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:39 am

uncle tom wrote:I'd like to know a little bit more about the middle-men in the system - I would love to see the Symingtons wholesale (ex. VNG) price list (and their discount structure)

I have a little suspicion that whilst the mass market products are being distributed with reasonable efficiency, the same can not be said for VP.

Tom

Tom, be thankful that you don't live in Canada. The more I research this, the more fed up I become. I'm moving to the US or UK!!!

There are not two tiers of middle-men for Canadian imports but THREE at a minimum in my province. There are also certain producers whose rights are "owned" by individual firms in other provinces for the entire country. So the top of the 3 middle-men in Alberta has to go through a 4th "middle" if he wants to buy product from that producer. I would guess that there would likely be at least 1-2 levels on the OTHER side of the Atlantic as well, making the mark-up on Port likely at least 100% of the wholesale cost when it leave VNG.

I'd like to know (wholesale), but I'm sure if I did, my head would explode. Just reading prices in postings from the US and UK folks on this forum makes me want to cry sometimes. The fact that I can't (legally) import stuff myself makes me want to cry. I cannot even (legally) buy en primeur without having to go through the 3-4 classes of middle-men. The arse at the store I talked to was very open when it came to discussing why supply is so low and prices so high, but wouldn't give up the name(s) of the three licensed individual shops in the province that are apparently authorized to make en primeur purchases (and from certain producers only.)

Our system is a mess.

So another answer to the question of the post (Have you purchased any 2004 VPs yet?) is still a no, and unfortunately, until "the system" brings them in, I can't really look at doing so anyway.

(How much does housing cost in the UK? What are salaries like for computer geeks there?!

)

Todd

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:35 pm

Tom

My guess: Ex cellers in VDG (or Douro if small producer) to retail in the US on a coast = 400%

Jay

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:52 pm

400% huh Jay? Ouch, that hurts. I imagine it is similar, if not more (upwards of 500-550% in Canada.) Like I said, every time a UK or US member posts about a great auction deal they found or a cheap price for a certain bottle it makes me cringe.

(I need to win the lottery real soon so these matters become trivial to me!) 8) 8)

Todd

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:15 am

I have purchased some 2004 VP, purchased en primeur, but only purchased Vesuvio and VVV. Paid more for the Vesuvio than I expect to pay on the secondary market if I top up and paid less for the VVV than it is now being offered for.

But I'm OK about it as I know the provenance, know the storage conditions and keep my complete Vesuvio vertical going.

I have only seen the Vesuvio '04 offered for retail in the UK and haven't seen any other '04s in the UK shops yet. When I do, I might buy one and commit infanticide with it.

Alex

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:15 am

Jay Powers wrote:Tom

My guess: Ex cellers in VDG (or Douro if small producer) to retail in the US on a coast = 400%

Jay

From my experience in Quebec, it is around 2-4 times ex-cellar price for Quebec. Wines under 20$ are likely to be 4 times the cost as wine above 30$ 2 times the cost of ex-cellar. There is the taxes and shipping but also a budget for promotion that you have to pay to the SAQ with every wine you want to import. A good merchant in Portugal for example sell his wines with only 75% increase from ex-cellar price and he is very happy with that believe me

Julian D. A. Wiseman · Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:40 am

I saw, but did not taste, the Noval 2004 at the New York exhibition of Portuguese wines.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:45 pm

Noval and Vesuvio 2004 are available in Ontario trough their new release of their Classic's catalog. 89$ for Noval and 69$ for Vesuvio. I'll grab a few for sure.

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:11 am

Wow, that seems to be a pretty good price. A case of Vesuvio would definitely be in order

Erik Wiechers · Post by **Erik Wiechers** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:15 am

I am able to buy a case of quinta do noval 2004 for only € 200 ( US $ 275) and/or a case of the quinta do noval 2003 for only € 250 ( US $ 345).

Did anyone tasted the noval 2004 yet ?

Erik

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:46 pm

I'd buy one case here too for this price. From a Canadian point of view, it is very cheap.

Axel Probst · Post by **Axel Probst** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:22 pm

Hey guys,

as I dont really have the time to translate the whole article, those of you who studied the german language do have an advantage. I did a 2004 VP tasting in May this year and heres where you can read about it:

http://www.port-blog.com scroll down

Summary: The Noval and Taylors Vargellas are very good (SQ)VPs. If you can grab a few for a good price to drink them in the mid-term, do so. In Germany the price-level is too high. I ordered a couple cases of Vale Meao 's VP 2004. Keep an eye out for this, as in my oppinion this will be a producer to look for in the future.

Axel

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:04 pm

Axel,

You are spot on with the Vargellas and Noval. Both are very good Ports, but I give a couple more points to the Vargellas as it was my favorite of the two.

Ted D · Post by **Ted D** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:33 pm

2004s are on the list as #2 daughter is a 2004 baby, but nothing bought yet.
Seems like very few are around, non locally, but hopefully in the fall.

I only want a "few" cases :)

For The Love Of Port

Have you purchased any 2004 VPs yet?

Have you purchased any 2004 VPs yet?

Noval 2004

A vintage not to keep...