Aguardente

[Michael Hann]

I'm curious about where the aguardente used to make Port wine comes from and whether it is considered to be a neutral element in determining the quality of the Port or whether there are qualitative differences introduced by the aguardente? Is there "good aguardente" and "bad aguardente?" Also, I have read aguardente referred to as "brandy." I assume this is by analogy and that the analogy is pretty limited. For example, I assume aguardente is a clear spirit and is not aged in wood, while brandy typically is aged in wood and takes on an amber cast from the wood.

[Mike Kerr]

I could be completely wrong here, but my limited understanding is that the brandy used in making Port is "brandy" not the "Brandy" most of us recognize and drink that you mention. I believe the "brandy" is clear and not the same. Similar maybe, but not the same.

Mike.

[Eric Menchen]

This is really a Roy question, or someone more knowledgeable than me, but I'll throw out a few things I believe to be true:
1. Aguardente is brandy if we use the term "brandy" at its most basic level, which is distilled wine, usually grape wine unless otherwise specified.
2. I've heard that the aguardente is supposed to be grape-neutral, in that you can't taste which grapes it was made from. That said ...
3. I've also heard some Port producers refer to the importance of the quality of the aguardente, so while you might not taste what it was made from, you can taste "good" and "bad" aguardente. This makes me wonder a little bit about #2.
4. For a while the regulations governing Port required that all the aguardente be sourced from Portugal. This is no longer a requirement, and I'm under the understanding that much of it comes from France. This should not be surprising as that country has a surplus of grape juice.

[Glenn E.]

What they said.

Aguardente is a neutral grape spirit that is higher in alcohol (77%) than brandy (typically no higher than 60% and often lower). It is made the same way, though, and so can be casually referred to as brandy. Cognac and Armagnac are brandies with PDO (Protected Designation of Origin) like Champagne, Chianti, or... Port.

As with anything, there are higher and lower quality types of aguardente. All are still technically neutral, but the better ones are smoother. Much like the difference between a high quality vodka and a low quality vodka.

[Paul_B]

Here is what I understand.
Aguardente Vínica is distilled wine and can be aged or not, clear or not. The ones used for port are clear.
Aguardente Bagaceira is distilled grape skins and stalks (pomace), after the grapes have been pressed. This one too can be aged or not, and clear or not. But usually aged.

Brandy is always aged even if not very long time and hence never clear. But it is always distilled wines.
Italian Grappa is always grape skins/stalks, pomace and can be aged or not and hence clear or not. But usually clear.

PS. There is a DOC in Portugal for Aguardente called Lourinhã. Apart from Cognac and Armagnac, I think Lourinhã is the only other DOC for this type of spirit. But I don't think the Aguardente used in port come from Lourinhã.

ah damn it, I'm too far from my liquor cabinet right now.

/Paul

[Moses Botbol]

I have a 30 years aged bottle of Aguardente for anyone to try when they come to Boston. It's much different than Cognac of 30 years age and probably not as good for people that are into brandy. It has the smoothness one would expect with a product someone is willing to wait 30 years on, but it's either the wood or the grape that makes different than Cognac. The finish is shorter and can taste the grape variety behind it. For sure it's not Cognac, but I am not expert.

[Eric Ifune]

Aguardente can be very important. Not too long ago, producers had no choice since it was provided by the government. There were some scandals in which the aguardente were not grape spirits. Now the producers can source their own. A few years ago on one of the fortification tours, we were at Fonseca while some samples were out. I managed to taste a few and there were marked differences between them. Of course, I'm not expert enough to tell how the different qualities affect the finished Port, but they were very particular about what they were using.

[oscarquevedo]

[quote="Eric Ifune"]Aguardente can be very important. Not too long ago, producers had no choice since it was provided by the government. There were some scandals in which the aguardente were not grape spirits. Now the producers can source their own.quote]

Hi Eric,
This is true, now we can buy it from different suppliers, in Portugal, Spain or France, mainly, but the IVDP is still controlling the suppliers. So we can only buy aguardente from certified distillers by the IVDP.

And of course there is a lot of difference in the quality of the aguardente. Producers can age it, but must bear in mind that with aging the alcohol evaporates and its % goes down.

You are ALL becoming BIG Port experts

[Moses Botbol]

Is the price range big on Aguardentes? Is it known which brands uses which Aguardente?

[oscarquevedo]

Not very big price range Moses, maybe 10% - 15%. Regarding brands, I would say that many use aguardente from different levels, depending on the Port you are making. Don't forget that Vintage Port is under 1% of the total production!

[Eric Menchen]

Here appear to be the regulations on aguardente:
http://www.ivdp.pt/pt/docs/legislacao/214.pdf

[Roy Hersh]

Looks like I don't even need to come visit my own Forum anymore. You've all grown so much and I'd say we have some of the most knowledgeable and resourceful Port lovers on the planet in here. Now, I can go find a new sandbox to play in.

Much of what is written is factual and very well done to all who've posted here.

I have tasted a slew of Aguardente and sipped on some amazing oldies going back to the beginning of the 1900s. I think the reason I like doing that is because I have always been a sucker for Tequila as it remains the only hard alcohol I choose to drink nowadays (back in Univ. I also liked JD). Anyway, aged Aguardente of high quality is some pretty cool and amazingly flavored juice. As Eric mentioned, we had a bunch to samples to try at TFP. We almost had some from the early 1930s on the 2009 Port Harvest Tour, but unfortunately the keys to that cabinet could not be located by the owner and so we missed out ... until we return there ... and to try that one, I can assure folks that we will be back.

As mentioned, the clear liquid that is grape neutral spirit ... fermented grape ...and Glenn was right about the % too, it was highly regulated back in the time of the Marques de Pombal. Then things loosened up after he was ousted. They tightened back up early in the 1900s and then again even further when the IVP was created in 1933 and started overseeing things like Aguardente and the Casa do Douro was also around too. Things changed during the German-Portuguese scandals of 1972 and 1973 when some sub-par imported grape neutral spirit (yes known as "brandy" but not Brandy that people typically drink, of course) but what came in from Germany was actually anti-freeze (I believe ethylene glycol). So, things were tight and then finally an industry group was formed (I believe it was 1996) as a Port trade buying co-op to find top quality product at the best price and this was blessed by the IVDP although samples had to be approved before contracts were completed. That group disbanded and the Shippers and Producers can buy from their (IVDP) approved sources list. The So. of France and Spain are two of the main markets for the fortifying liquid today, but plenty is still produced in Southern Portugal too. I know some is made on the Island of Madeira as well, but don't think that it's ever sold on the mainland to the Port trade.

These days the Port shippers are even more savvy when it comes to buying Aguardente. They set up tasting panels in most cases, in larger companies and groups like the Douro Boys probably are buying as a group to leverage their buying power and utilize the economies of scale. The clean factor looms large with Aguardente. Although "basically neutral" some flavor can remain (remember the story of Andy licking it off his hand? ) anyway, the Port trade is very selective and the higher the quality used, the less chance that heat/spirit will protrude on the palate. Sometimes in my TNs I refer to the spirit rather than heat, because it is the quality of the aguardente which causes Ports to occasionally taste hot, while other times it is the lack of integration when a Port is young. There is a difference of course and it is not easy to know that distinction, no less be able to taste it in a Port.

[Luc Gauthier]

D'Alma Aguardente Vinica Velha 40.0 % Pernod Ricard Portugal 69,50 $

Adega Velha Aveleda Aguardente 39.0 % Aveleda Sociedade Agricola eCommercial 90,00 $

This is what's available at the SAQ .
Obviously we aren't talking about the same aguardente .

[Eric Menchen]

Obviously we aren't talking about the same aguardente .

Well the term literally translates to burning water or firewater, so it is used throughout the Portuguese speaking world for a variety of things.

[Luc Gauthier]

Merci Éric

[Andy Velebil]

remember the story of Andy licking it off his hand?

Wimps, that's because I was the only brave enough to do it first...ok, maybe stupid enough is a better word

[Michael Hann]

remember the story of Andy licking it off his hand?

Wimps, that's because I was the only brave enough to do it first...ok, maybe stupid enough is a better word

I appreciate all the information that has been supplied on this thread.

The story of Andy licking his hand -- presumably recently bathed in aguardente? -- reminds me of a drinking amusement that some French friends showed me on a brilliant, sun lit afternoon years ago in Alsace. They asked me if I had ever seen anyone light their cigarette with their finger? My response -- of course not. They dipped their finger in the eaux-de-vie we were then consuming, ignited the eaux-de-vie with a cigarette lighter, and then quickly ignited their cigarette from the invisible but very hot alcohol flame consuming the eaux-de-vie on their finger -- seemingly lighting their cigarette with their finger. In the sun light it is difficult to impossible to see such an alcohol flame. This eaux-de-vie was likely a "custom" product having a higher alcohol content -- like aguardente -- than the alcohol content in standard, state approved eaux-de-vies. At least that was the inference I drew from the eaux-de-vie being stored in what appeared to be a large lemonade bottle without a label.