Did Taylor declare in both 1934 and 1935?

[Tom D.]

Can anyone tell me if Taylor declared in both 1934 and 1935? Any experience or other knowledge of how these two vintages compare?

Thanks!

[Eric Ifune]

We had the 35 this past weekend. Lovely stuff. Don't know about the 34.

[Derek T.]

They produced a Quinta de Vargellas 1934 but not the classic Taylor blend.

[Tom D.]

Interesting, I didn't realize they bottled the Vargellas as a singe quinta VP that far back.

Anyway, Acker's current online wine auction lot # 10338 shows a 1934 Taylor Vintage Port for sale. Perhaps it should read Vargellas, or perhaps it's a misprint, or maybe a misidentified Colheita?

[Derek T.]

I may be wrong but I don't think Taylor have ever made a Colheita. The earliest Vargellas was the 1895

[Roy Hersh]

I had the 1912 Vargellas and still have the bottle. What a gorgeous young Vintage Port that was!

[Tom D.]

Well now this is getting confusing. Taylor's website says:

"Acquired in 1893, at the time when phylloxera was at its most destructive in the area the harvest at the Quinta (Vargellas) was a beggarly six pipes. By the time the famous years of 1908 and 1912 had arrived, Vargellas was producing 100 of the 300 or so pipes Taylor’s declared as a Vintage."

In the next paragraph, it says "Taylor's were the first to commercialize their single quinta ports with the launch of their Quinta de Vargellas 1958 Vintage Port.

So, help me out: Based on the second sentence above, how could there have been a 1934 (or 1908 or 1912 for that matter) Quinta de Vargellas VP, if there was no Quinta de Vargellas VP until 1958? And if there WAS a 1934 QdV VP, how can that be if there was no declaration by Taylor in 1934? Does it mean there really WAS a 1934 Taylor VP, but it included only Vargellas grapes so it was not considered a "declaration"?

Thanks for helping me learn this stuff!

[Derek T.]

Tom,

One the subject of single quinta wines I think the key word in the quotation is "comercialize". That is not the same as "produce". Many producers were creating small lots of single quinta wines from non-declared vintages prior to the mid 20th century but they were not commercially available as they are today. These wines tended to be used by the producers themselves or were only sold to certain established customers.

The 1934 TQdV was probably an example of this. The fact that one has appeared on the auction market simply means that it has been extracted from a cellar of someone who was one of those "special customers" or, as occassionally happens, it may have been a gift from the Tayor family to someone who visited them that has somehow survived and found its way into the auction catalogue many decades later.

I hope this helps?

Derek

[Tom D.]

Thanks, Derek. That is very helpful!

[cj savino]

Well, did you bid on and win this bottle.

[Shawn Denkler]

As Derek T mentioned, small lots of port were bottled that were not standard bottlings. I have had 1949 Warre which I bought to try as a birthyear port. It was not very good, in fact it was a poor year for port. But a barrel was bottled for some special request years ago. I have owned 1977 Cockburn vintage port as well which came directly from Cockburn's cellars. It was not declared by Cockburn but a small amount was bottled. Many similar situations exist which is part of the fun of exploring port.

[Derek T.]

It is an ambition of mine to one day organise a tasting in the Douro with the theme "The 10 Greatest Undeclared Vintage Ports"

[Tom D.]

I have made some progress in solving this mystery:

The bottle in question is in fact a 1934 Taylor Colheita, bottled in 1976 or 1977. This has been confirmed by inspection of the bottle and preliminary correspondence with Taylor Fladgate, who claim knowledge of only three Colheitas actually bottled by Taylor, including the 1934. I was able to find one reference in the Port Forum archives concerning a 1944 Taylor Colheita, bottled in 1985 (interestingly, about 40 years in cask, just like the 1934 Colheita). Anyone know the third Colheita that was actually bottled by Taylor?

In any case, I am expecting further information from Taylor Fladgate very soon, and will share whatever I learn.

By the way, I did end up purchasing this bottle -- probably overpaid at $350, but it's always nice to have bottles with interesting stories.
I posted a picture of the label to Portraits, and I will edit this post to include the picture also, once I figure out how to do that...Thanks for the instructions, Glenn!

[Glenn E.]

Since others might also be interested, here's how to do it.

Go into PORTraits and click on the picture to bring up the larger version of it. Now right-click on that larger picture and select Properties. One of the properties is the picture's address, which you can then copy.

Come back to the forums and create a message. While doing so, click the "Img" button above the editing window to get the image tags (or just type them in yourself), then past the address in between the tags. Voila!

[Tom D.]

Thanks, Glenn!

[cj savino]

I have made some progress in solving this mystery:

The bottle in question is in fact a 1934 Taylor Colheita, bottled in 1976 or 1977. This has been confirmed by inspection of the bottle and preliminary correspondence with Taylor Fladgate, who claim knowledge of only three Colheitas actually bottled by Taylor, including the 1934. I was able to find one reference in the Port Forum archives concerning a 1944 Taylor Colheita, bottled in 1985 (interestingly, about 40 years in cask, just like the 1934 Colheita). Anyone know the third Colheita that was actually bottled by Taylor?

In any case, I am expecting further information from Taylor Fladgate very soon, and will share whatever I learn.

By the way, I did end up purchasing this bottle -- probably overpaid at $350, but it's always nice to have bottles with interesting stories.
I posted a picture of the label to Portraits, and I will edit this post to include the picture also, once I figure out how to do that...Thanks for the instructions, Glenn!

I was tempted to bid on this, but after reading your interest I passed and went for a '63 Taylor and got it

[Tom D.]

CJ, I've learned you were not the only FTLOP'er who was interested in bidding on this bottle. Perhaps it would be a good candidate for me to share at an FTLOP offline some time.

[Andy Velebil]

CJ, I've learned you were not the only FTLOP'er who was interested in bidding on this bottle. Perhaps it would be a good candidate for me to share at an FTLOP offline some time.

Now that's an idea I won't say no to!

[cj savino]

CJ, I've learned you were not the only FTLOP'er who was interested in bidding on this bottle. Perhaps it would be a good candidate for me to share at an FTLOP offline some time.

Now that's an idea I won't say no to!

Yes an excellent idea and even better if it was in the NYC area.

[Marc J.]

Tom,

I like the way you think.....

Marc