Buying my first port decanter

[Alexis]

Hey all,
I bought an unfiltered LBV (Quinta do Crasto 97) which I guess I'll need to decant before drinking. Funny thing, it's the first time I need a decanter and I don't have one.

Is there anything special one should look for when buying a port decanter ? Can a whine carafe do the job (if it is even different than a port decanter)?

Thanks for your help!

Alexis

[Derek T.]

Alexis,

I am sure some purists will disagree but my view is that the only essential element you need to look for in a port decanter is that it provides sufficient surface area for the liquid to be in contact with the air. Tall slender wine decanters provide only a small surface area whereas the more common port decanters are wider in order to allow a larger surface area - and also so they did not fall over when sitting on the Captains table on a rolling sea!

I have used a glass measuring jug in the past where a decanter wasn't available and the port developed beautifully - although it didn't look too good on the dinner table :?

Whatever you use, just make sure it's clean and can hold the whole 750ml - I once used a new decanter for a very nice bottle of port only to find mid way through the pour that the decanter only held 500ml so I ended up with 250ml swilling around in the sediment in the bottle :x

Derek

[Roy Hersh]

Derek is right on. Don't spend a lot of money on a decanter. I strongly suggest NOT buying a lead-crystal decanter. Lead leeches into the Port no matter how careful you are. For a brief decant job it is not going to be as bad as if you keep a 20 year old Tawny inside for a month and a half, but lead is a cumulative poison and its residual effect can harm the body.

Besides that, have fun with buying a decanter. I like the old ship's decanter with the very wide body and even occasionally use a Magnum sized decanter if I want to do the same job in less time. Practice makes perfect. Here is a case where function takes precedence over form, save your money for more important things like great Port!

[Al B.]

My experience is that you generally get all the air contact you need for a wine to develop when you pour the wine through the air and it bubbles into the "decanter". Lots of bubbles means that lots of air is being moxed in to the wine.

I have successfully used a kitchen measuring jug, a glass water jug, a whiskey decanter and a claret jug as well as an empty old glass water bottle. In many of these cases I rinsed out the old port bottle and then poured the decanted contents back into the original bottle so that it looked better when I was serving the wine.

Basically, I believe that you can use anything clean and large enough.

Alex

[Derek T.]

I strongly suggest NOT buying a lead-crystal decanter. Lead leeches into the Port no matter how careful you are.

Is this scientific fact or is it a fine example of modern day paranoia that everything in the world is bad for you? I'm no chemist, but I would be surprised if glass was capable of releasing particles from it's molecular structure simply through contact with a stable liquid at room temperature

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Derek,

I am going to have to agree with Roy on this one. IIRC there have been studies that show the acidic nature of wine causes the lead to be released into the liquid. Just like if you eat paint made with lead. I too do not use any lead-based decanters and I almost never use lead-based wine glasses.

[Alexis]

There are great replies, thank you so much. Now I know what [not] to look for !

[Derek T.]

Andy/Roy,

This should probably now move to "Other Discussions" but, I live in a country that still has a substantial amount of it's fresh water flowing through lead pipes. These have been used for hundereds of years an all us Brits are still here. My father has been drinking Malt Whisky out of lead crystal decanters and glasses for 40 years and doesn't bleep when he goes through security at the airport

I really do think you guys worry too much. We are about to enter the next Ice Age and you're worrying about lead from port decanters!

Incidentally, do you have any idea how much alchohol you would have to drink before the lead got to your brain? I would think your liver would check-out first so proably not worth worrying about the lead.

Derek

[Russ K]

little late on the conversation, but thought as a chemical engineer, i could shed some light here.

The issue in the migration of lead into the liquid is the extent/duration of contact.

Since the water is more often than not flowing through the pipe and not stagnant, no issue (as long as no significant corrosion/erosion, which lead pipes are very resistant to). Therefore the pipe analogy is incorrect.

the issue with lead based crystal is a the amount of time a liquid is stored. For a port, which is usually done through a month, the contamination is limited. However, lots of folks who leave items such as whiskey in a lead decanter for extended periods of time (say over 6 months to a year), that liquid certainly does become contaminated with small amounts of lead, which can very well lead to significant sickness...
Just drink the contents quick enough , there is limited issue...

[Roy Hersh]

This should probably now move to "Other Discussions" but, I live in a country that still has a substantial amount of it's fresh water flowing through lead pipes. These have been used for hundereds of years an all us Brits are still here.

I wonder what effect it has on the teeth of your fellow countrymen? Just kidding!

[Derek T.]

the issue with lead based crystal is a the amount of time a liquid is stored. For a port, which is usually done through a month, the contamination is limited.

Roy - how many times have you kept VP in a decanter for more than 24 hours?

Derek

[randomguy]

My recent decanter of choice has been an Erlenmeyer flask. Ghetto.

[Jay Powers]

My recent decanter of choice has been an Erlenmeyer flask. Ghetto.

As an organic chemist I must applaud your taste ! Of course Pyrex is probably more inert than crystal and is more resistant to acid, so you are probably getting less lead than if you used an "unleaded" decanter! Unfortunately I do not know the relative lead content of pyrex vs. unleaded crystal to make sure of that statement

I have heard of the studies of leaded crystal vs. unleaded, but have not seen the data myself. However, it does make some sense. I would suspect that the two biggest factors in the amount of lead which gets into solution in the use of leaded decanters is pH and ethanol content. You would expect that the more acidic the solution the more lead would be dissolved at equilibrium, and ethanol would also improve the equilibrium solubility of organic lead salts. So acidic solutions such as wines would be expected to end up with higher lead content than libations which are not so acidic, and Bacardi 151 would be expected to have higher lead concentrations than 80 proof liquor. Thus port, with it's higher alcohol content, may end up with more lead in solution that table wine with a similar pH.

The time that the liquid spends in contact with the decanter would be expected to have an effect, up to the point that equilibrium is reached. So although one day in decanter might be different than one year, 100 years is probably not different than one year. But that brings up the question of how much lead is available on the surface of the glass to be dissolved? An interesting study would be to see not only is there a difference between solutions (i.e. wine, cognac, scotch, and such), but a followup study, to whit, after the first study, if you repeated the same exact study with the same exact liquid, but used the same exact (and now used) decanter, would you get the same result? My guess is you would not, and that with each successive use of the decanter you would see decreasing amounts of lead in solution each time. So your old well used leaded crystal decanter could actually give less lead in solution than a new "unleaded" decanter would!

Of course I'm not an inorganic chemist, which might be more useful than an organic chemist here (and may be the only time thats ever true) ! If anybody has a reference to these studies I would be interested to see them. Although this is an interesting thought experiment (at least if you are a chemist half way through a bottle of port), I think that the bottom line here is probably that however much port you drink out of a leaded crystal decanter, the amount of lead you are actually ingesting is miniscule (parts per trillion?), and not likely to affect your health. And the amount of time that this group is going to leave port in a decanter is also short! So drink up!

[Julian old_ac Wiseman]

Enough of this lead paranoia: the quantities extracted are miniscule relative to those encountered in ordinary urban living.

But there is something far more important about buying a decanter, and that is the shoulders. Some square decanters have horizontal shoulders, making it very difficult to:

1. Extract that last drop of VP before retiring to bed; and
2. Dry the decanter in the morning.

Slopey shoulders are the way forward.

(I have written an essay on the ideal decanter for a drinker, and designed a decanter that obeys my injunctions. Still looking for a manufacturer though.)

[Al B.]

Julian,

How about posting a copy of the article on the ideal decanter? I have three "decanters" which I use. A traditional ships decanter, a squared off whiskey decanter and a claret jug. I know which I prefer to use and which I think gives the best results for both a quick aeration and for extended storage, but I would be interested to know how my experience compares with the thoughts in your article.

Alex

[Julian old_ac Wiseman]

Aeration is irrelevant. The act of pouring mixes enough air into the wine. A large surface area isn't useful, and might be slightly detrimental for madeira that is stored for several weeks.

Whisky decanters have the square-shoulders problem.

Ships' decanters take too much space: ten of them at a tasting takes too much of a table.

Claret jugs lack stoppers.

[Al B.]

Care to elaborate as to what are the features of a good decanter now that you have listed out all the faults of the decanters that I choose to use?

[Derek T.]

Aeration is irrelevant. The act of pouring mixes enough air into the wine. A large surface area isn't useful......

WRONG :!: - if this were true then quickly double decanting back into the original bottle and replacing the stopper would result in exactly the same post decanting development of the wine as if it were left in a decanter, either with a large surface area or without.

The fact is that VP develops as a consequence of contact between the surface area and the atmosphere over a prolonged period. The air that enters the wine during pouring comes back to the surface and escapes, as evidenced by the bubbles on the top of the wine. Vapour also needs to be able to escape from the wine during the decanting process, another reason why the surface area is important.

I have experimented with this. I have a magnum ships decanter that I use for 750ml bottles. the result of this is that the surface area at the point of decanting is across the widest part of the bowl of the decanter - about 9 to 10 inches in diameter. The aroma's that escape from this decanter can be sensed at long range and with the nose over the decanter are invariably far more intense than when you stick your nose over the neck of a bottle

Derek

[Julian old_ac Wiseman]

Care to elaborate as to what are the features of a good decanter

I am seeking a manufacturer, to whom I will happily supply my marketing essay and decanter design. Until then I'm reluctant to publish.

I have experimented with this.

Please say more about experiments done: this is of great interest.

[Derek T.]

Please say more about experiments done: this is of great interest.

I am reluctant to say more as I am awaiting offers from Bob Parker, James Suckling and Roy Hersh for my essay decanting tips

Derek