The Great Terrantez Tasting -- time/place TBD

[Philippe Borel]

A couple of thoughts Roy.

You made the call. You decided to go selective. It is what it is. Is there a more democratic way? Absolutely.
Is this the time and the place to do discuss it ? Absolutely not. Should there be another top level event in the future and if
suggestions are requested then suggestions can be made available for review.
The one point which i don't quite understand is about the criteria. I know more than one member who did fill all the
requested points and did not get the e-mail.
But the horse is dead, no sense whipping it further. However there is, for the un-chosen ones, a positive side to the story: with a fair number of rare and ancient bottles gone to the big Madeira heaven in the sky the members who have the good fortune to have such rare and ancient bottles
in their cellars should see their prized possessions appreciate significantly. All is not lost!

[Eric Menchen]

This thread started over a year ago, and was split from another before that. I would think if you were interested in attending and had commented on this thread, you might have been contacted. Now there aren't enough people on this thread, so those organizing had to reach out ... Just a guess.

[Ray Barnes]

Well Philippe, if you are correct, since I have a partial outstanding private arrangement to settle on a couple of 19th century madeiras, I will keep your hypothesis in mind.

Perhaps those deemed unworthy of attending such gatherings in the future should be formally uninvited. (ducks twice)

[Glenn E.]

(ducks twice)

<-- horse-shaped duck

[Ray Barnes]

getting lol reaction here, but not sure why.

[Peter Reutter]

Just a couple of thoughts about this event:

It was an absolutely historic event, just by pure magnitude of line-up, but also by depth of range at the vintages 1862, 1846 and 1795, as well as depth of people attending (professionals, collectors, amateurs, trade-people, producers, journalists).

I am definitely glad I was there, and I can fully support the line: "I would have flown in just for that event..." (might even have been my comment, my memory is a bit hazy after all that wine...) It was a life-time-event, but I hope to live for another event like this.

Besides the wine, I very much enjoyed the pleasant conversation, about all kinds of topics ranging from kids to electric cars...

For all those who wished they had been there: If another tasting like this comes up (though I doubt it will) and the thread goes on for more then a year, then just JOIN THE CONVERSATION! to anyone who understands old madeira wines, it was obvious that the limit would be about 18 guests. you can only have single bottles at a tasting like this, since after such long storing time each bottle will taste different, even if its the same wine, same producer and same vintage/grape. so the limit is not to exclude some people, but because more than 18 leaves to little wine to taste for everyone. so: JOIN IN EARLY NEXT TIME!

Personally I very much hope that this will be an ignition for more profound tastings to come ...

[Alan Gardner]

And my 2 cents.

I don't think everyone realizes the effort involved in successfully pulling off something like this. I organize Madeira tastings for a local group of 16 participants and despite knowing the date MONTHS in advance there are always drop-outs and substitutions need to be found. And that's on top of doing all the arrangements in the first place (collating wines - all held locally etc).

This was a MASSIVE logistical process and, for my part, I wouldn't want to take on corralling 18 participants from around the world and arranging delivery/collection/verification of the wines - and the immense logistics of organizing glasses, servers (and, of course the same issues with the meal - many people have some dietary restrictions).

I''m always happy to submit to the organizers method of selection - and I have no reason to question the fairness of the process used. My 1795 contribution appeared to be the only sample of that shipper available (although I heard that another conributor had misidentified the promised wine and it turned out to be identical to mine - and so I was first past the post). I begged, wheedled and cajoled to get a second place - offering a 180 year-old Terrantez madeira that wasn't included - but it just didn't meet the criteria of being 'legendary'.

I also hope that someone will take on a similar project. And I hope I can qualify - but unless I'm the organizer (and, being in Ontario it's ILLEGAL to ship wines in, so don't see how I can verify that the 'promised' wines will actually arrive), I will gladly submit to any selection criteria chosen by the organizer.

And the knowledge base of the participants was AWESOME. Everybody there deserved their place. When somebody asked (OK it was me) how far above sea-level the Terrantez vines were planted (in a discussion on relative sweetness) the answer (which was known) involved different vineyard plots on different sides of the island.

Kudos to Roy (and Mannie) - without you (and Eric/Peter's original idea), none of us would have been able to experience this.

[Ray Barnes]

Something in me is getting an impression that nobody can do anything worthwhile without being subjected to some sort of negative feedback, even if said feedback is borne out of envy. You can't please everyone, and sometimes you can't please anyone.

All I await is the soon-to-be-legendary report in a future newsletter, to be of equal or greater stature than the event itself.

[Marco D.]

...it was obvious that the limit would be about 18 guests. ...

It should be mentioned that this was jointly organized by Roy and Mannie Berk. They both shared in suppling the guest list. I would think Roy only had about 7-8 slots available. I don't envy the task he had at hand.

The organization that went into this was monumental. There was a wonderful booklet that was put together and supplied to the participants with information on Terrantez, in general, and the history and provenance of the bottles tasted in particular. Perhaps a pdf can be made available for download to FTLOP members in the future?

[Peter Reutter]

And one more thought that I would like to offer, despite the fact that it is sooooo obvious that mentioning should not be necessary...

This tasting, despite the huge amount of work that Roy and Mannie put into it, was NON-COMMERCIAL!

I mean, just think about it: alt least here in Europe there have been many madeira wine tastings over the last years, some for free, some for a fee-of-some-sort, but mostly with a commercial background. Most of the times a producer or the IVBAM or an importer would try to promote certain madeira wines for business reasons. Not for a second did I have the feeling that any of the involved people had any commercial intentions with this event. And especially Mannie could well have used this for promoting his rarewineco selection (not that he had to...). But he did not, he just had fun doing this, like Roy, like the other "professionals" who were present. I really had the strong impression that this was a labour of love, and I can only say that I am deeply grateful that someone was willing to put in all the time and effort to make it happen - THANKS!

The tasting notes and general information about the wines will surely be published in many places within the next weeks, so anyone not present at the tasting should at least be able to get the impression of the wines. Next time anyone interested should join in early, maybe contribute more then just a bottle of wine, but also shoulder a part of the work-load and I am hopeful that someone will be mad enough to take on another herculean task like this!

[Philippe Borel]

I think, but this is merely an impression, that my thoughts have not have not received a ringing endorsment.... I think further that i may not be invited to some of your next xmas parties......
And i have to accept, my act of public contrition, that i know nothing about old madeiras, that the invitation process was the right one, that my notes were probably driven by envy or worse.
I see little for me to do but go to my wine cellar (comprising of 3 bottles of fine eight dollar Astica) open up a bottle of 5 year old boal (anything older is beyond my palate's ability to appreciate) and shoot myself.
And you will not even miss me.....
I should have known better, yesterday was March 15, you know.... the Ides of March etc, etc)

[Alan Gardner]

I think, but this is merely an impression, that my thoughts have not have not received a ringing endorsment.... I think further that i may not be invited to some of your next xmas parties......
And i have to accept, my act of public contrition, that i know nothing about old madeiras, that the invitation process was the right one, that my notes were probably driven by envy or worse.
I see little for me to do but go to my wine cellar (comprising of 3 bottles of fine eight dollar Astica) open up a bottle of 5 year old boal (anything older is beyond my palate's ability to appreciate) and shoot myself.
And you will not even miss me.....
I should have known better, yesterday was March 15, you know.... the Ides of March etc, etc)

Absolutely NOT Philippe. I'm sure that anybody there would be happy to help you develop your taste. This just wasn't the right function for anybody other than those already insane for Madeira. And we all know other people that didn't make it.

BUT - if you make it down to Toronto, I'll certainly be happy to help your 'education'. If you plan on coming on a weekend in late November/early December, let me know as that's when we have our own 'higher-end' Madeira dinner (expecting to have 4 different 1912's this year - if everybody comes through). I even have some flexibility on dates if I know early enough (also depends on restaurant availability) - send me a personal message for more details.

Alan

[Andy Velebil]

Gentlemen,

Philippe's point is well taken. I've briefly discussed this issue with Roy this morning as he was heading out the door. I'm sure when he gets back in he'll chime in. Until then, please be respectful to each other as you always are.

[Eric Ifune]

As was stated before, the planning on this started over a year ago. People, including myself, committed to it early and I cleared out my schedule to be sure to make it. I understand some individuals wished to be added on much later. What do you do, kick out the early ones who committed a year ago? As Peter stated, "Join the Conversation." I believe that everyone who committed a year ago did make it.

[Philippe Borel]

What more do you want me to Say Eric?
You are saying what half a dozen other members stated.
I get it.
I whipped myself publicly, shot myself privately.

Making a point is a good thing. There is such a thing as over-making a point.
Is this necessary?

[Roy Hersh]

Just back from a half day of skiing, the very first time for my daughter and skiing at one time in my life was far more important to me than wine is today. So the joy I experienced in watching my daughter pick it up so quickly, was remarkable. She's the exact same age that I started at which is fun, although I do wish I had made the time/synergy to have done this several years ago.

Now back to this thread. I have not read it from from front to back and would like to do that. I do want to apologize up front, if anybody felt left out or not included ... as I truly did my best to include the folks here who seemed to be serious about joining in. I had full control of the invite list up until late Jan. or early February, when I gave the rest of the spots to Mannie Berk who told me who he would like to also invite with those spots. They became hotly contested towards the end and people really had to step up with bottles that were historically important and in some cases cost the adoptee in the $3,000-5000 range to purchase. At that point we had been working on this since the autumn of last year, even though it began nearly 14 months ago.

Anyway, I meant for this Terrantez tasting to include as many people as possible from FTLOP and I can say that there were a bunch at least half, some who've posted and a couple of others who have not posted here in the thread, but either do participate in the forum or are long term subscribers (at least two that I can think of off the top of my head).

More to the point though, I understand Philippe's point(s) as well. Certainly no offense was meant and I hope those that were participants can understand that some who were not in attendance may feel left out now (or then). I wish I had read through this more carefully from start to finish before posting this note ... and promise to do so as soon as time permits. My daughter's schedule (w/ my wife away on biz) has been keeping me very busy the past few days!

Will be back to revisit this topic, tonight. Promise!

[Roy Hersh]

OK, I've now read every post and it was an interesting glimpse into how this all got started and even how it morphed with my explanation on page two into a very different kind of event. I was clear at that time, that it was going upscale. In fact, I had to adopt a bottle because the $800-900 bottle of Terrantez I owned was not worthy of what we were trying to achieve. So what started out as a great idea for a nice Terrantez tasting, turned into an epic, historically important Madeira event.

Now some facts: 11 of the 18 participants were from my guest list, all of which are FTLOP related, either Forum participants, subscribers or have been on our trips to Portugal. Another couple was a mutual agreement with Mannie, (as soon as he became involved) the husband of which was my original Madeira mentor as mentioned at the event. The other guests were all invited by Mannie (including that couple). We discussed every bottle and every person coming right down to the flights of dinner wines. The fit was magical and sometimes the stars align as they did that evening. Between my nearly 3 decades in food and beverage management, the hundreds of wine tastings and seminars (even past Madeira events that Mannie has been apart of) I've organized and tours to Portugal... this single event was the most detailed and logistically challenging of any that I can remember. This one, never would have been nearly the same caliber without Mannie's generous investment of time and effort.

From discussions of photography/videography of the event to the placement of the placemats, no detail was left to chance. Someone talked about the booklet that was produced. We began discussions on that back in late January). For the most part that will be shared in the newsletter, but not until I discuss that with Mannie first. The details were planned to the point that every single participant received a personal email about the decanting of their specific bottle or how to ship it in advance of the event so the decanting could be done properly in the USA. Favors were called in from chef friends and glass rentals companies, etc. We even went out of our way to find a few bottles that were worthy that people who wanted to attend but did not have, could adopt. The day before the event, light bulbs were purchased and put in fixtures added to the room so we'd have better light for determining the coloration. Negotiations and discussions ensued with more venues in NYC than can be imagined and Mannie followed up with personal visits paid to all but one of them. Mannie's work on this project was absolutely enormous; from his dedication, determination, hundreds of hours he personally invested, connections worldwide and between the phone calls/emails between the two of us ... simply insane. So when someone like Reidar says this was the greatest day in his life, I am proud to say I witnessed his smile that day.

In hindsight, given my druthers, this should never have been a discussion continued on the Forum, (but it started out simply here) --- especially once it changed course. I did my best to let it go dark. I knew that once the event was over it would be discussed here no matter what, so I decided to bring the topic back just prior to show time. However, I absolutely knew that there was a chance that some people who were not able to attend would feel bad, (this includes my own brother who is a serious Madeira lover and has come on tour to Madeira) because the bar was raised to such a high level, or because the specific date did not work for some, etc.

I realize that it is an impossible task to get it 100% right, but will say it was not due to lack of effort or vision. Should another event of this magnitude be organized in the future, I have learned my lesson and will only mention it here, after the fact. I truly hope that the explanation and sincerity of my apology will suffice, to Philippe, et al that felt slighted in any way.

[Ray Barnes]

Somehow I get the impression that giving a full written account of this gathering which would do it justice is almost tantamount to publishing its own special newsletter or report. In any event, this, even from my own relative neophytic perspective, has the trappings of a once-in-a-lifetime occasion. To those who generously contributed their finest and rarest bottles of Terrantez, a type of madeira of which I have had very little experience but consider that little amount to be precious, I salute your conviviality and willingness to to recognize that the greatest of wines presents the opportunity for the greatest of sharing experiences. In the end, as it is written in sacred texts, wine makes us glad. The greatest pleasure comes from enriching the lives of others by any and all means one has at one's disposal. My guess is, this was at least part of the underlying spirit of this gathering.

[Eric Ifune]

Philippe,
In no way was I trying to belittle you and if it seemed that way, I apologise. I was just throwing another superfluous two cents in.

[Philippe Borel]

Interesting couple of days. Emotions flying about. I want to thank Roy for his note which reminds us all what a classy man he is. Great values of integrity and honesty. Quite heart warming.
I am thankful to Andy for cooling the game. It honors him.
I was deeply touched by Eric's note. He took the high road which is a reflection of the quality person that he is.
Thank you all