2003 Vintage: Shall I always prefer Fonseca to Taylor?

[John Owlett]

I've drunk really quite a lot of port over the decades, but I'm relatively new to side-by-side comparisons of different ports ... and completely new to side-by-side comparisons of different newly bottled ports. But, a while back, Berrys' tempted me by putting their remaining half-bottles of 2003 vintage port on sale at 25% off in the Basinsgtoke shop. I bought the last four half-bottles, three of Fonseca and one of Taylor.

First I compared Fonseca and Taylor. Quite different. Starting with the cork: the Fonseca cork was a deep purple in colour; the Taylor was crimson -- definitely red rather than purple. The Fonseca had a stronger fruity taste; the Taylor had more of a tannin grip. For my own palate, I preferred the Fonseca.

Secondly I bought a bottle of 2003 Dow to compare with the second half-bottle of Fonseca. It was much harder for me to express a preference between these two.

Thirdly what I need to do -- or so I deduce from the posts in these forums -- is to buy a bottle of 2003 Vesuvio to compare with the last half-bottle. Then I shall have my own preferences (valid for me and for nobody else) of four of the most highly regarded wines of the vintage ... as they are when they are three years old.

Now, my question is, will my preferences still be the same in twenty years' time? If I buy a case of my favourite now, will it still be my favourite when I come to drink it?

I realize that the tannins in all three new wines I have tasted will polymerize with time and precipitate out as sediment; the young fruit-bomb taste will decline somewhat and more complex nuances will emerge. But is that likely to change my preferences? And, if it will, how can I learn to identify in a young wine the things that will delight me in a mature one?

Later,

Dr Owl

---------------------------
John Owlett, Southampton, UK

[Roy Hersh]

What about 2003 Quinta do Noval, Quinta do Portal, Niepoort, and Croft?

[John Owlett]

A good point, Roy. Maybe I have restricted myself to too small a short list.

My thinking flowed from the sad fact that I can no longer drink very much -- a six-shipper comparison would almost certainly be a mistake -- and five more two-shipper comparisons would have to be spaced out over several months. By which time, I fear that the port I prefer may no longer be easy to find: both the suppliers I use most (Berrys' and Farr Vintners) have already sold out of both Fonseca and Taylor.

Am I worrying too much about this? Will there still be supplies of whatever turns out to be my first preference in some months' time?

And my former question remains: will my first preference in some months' time still be my first preference in twenty years' time?

I did not intend in any way to disrespect the four ports you suggest adding to the short list. My rather short short list contained Fonseca and Vesuvio, which seem to be the most highly regarded by posters to these forums; together with Dow, which I have enjoyed many times over the years; and Taylor, which gave me my finest port memory when I drank some 1948 port (from my birth year) at a formal dinner in Oxford in 1975.

Later,

Dr Owl

----------------------------
John Owlett, Southampton, UK

[*sweetstuff]

Dear John,

You have listed a few differences that you percieve between these port shippers. Believe me, there are many other differences, many of which will not be apparent until 10, 15, or even more years of cellar aging.

This is why it is recommended that you taste these wines at various ages WITH OTHER FOLKS that are interested in port. You will educate your palate faster this way to the differences, and this will help you with your purchasing decisions.

At what age do you generally drink your best Ports? This is a real factor in your choice.

I know that Grahams is not as respected on this board as it is elsewhere, but it really should, I think, be added to the lists that you and Roy have come up with. But the shippers that Roy has suggested have done especially well as of late, and should not really be neglected.

[Moses Botbol]

I know that Grahams is not as respected on this board as it is elsewhere, but it really should, I think, be added to the lists that you and Roy have come up with. But the shippers that Roy has suggested have done especially well as of late, and should not really be neglected.

Why is that? I find Grahams to be one of my top picks. Their '85 I think is the best of that vintage I am yet to sample. I was unaware Grahams is not that respected.

Sorry to hijack a thread, but this caught my interest...

[John Owlett]

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

At what age do you generally drink your best Ports? This is a real factor in your choice.

I know that Grahams is not as respected on this board as it is elsewhere, but it really should, I think, be added to the lists that you and Roy have come up with.

Apart from the 2003 trials, the last four bottles of vintage port that I've opened have been

• 1994 Dow
  1977 Warre
  1983 Taylor
  1977 Graham

of which the one I liked most was the 1994 Dow. So, although I might like to maintain that I never drink a vintage port younger than 20 years old, it isn't altogether true.

The 1977 Graham, which we opened last Saturday for the Owlett family Christmas lunch, was a perfectly good port which I found somewhat too sweet. Is it possible, Moses and John, that it's an issue of personal taste such as this -- possibly even an issue of the fashionability of dryer wines -- which lowers the Graham profile on these forums?

Later,

Dr Owl

----------------------------
John Owlett, Southampton, UK

[Roy Hersh]

I am not sure why or where John believes that Graham's has been dissed on this Forum or at least not as respected as some other Shippers.

I love Graham's although it is not my favorite producer, wines like the 1945, 1948, 1963 and 1970 oldies are standouts from those noteworthy vintages. 1983, 1985, 1994 and 2000/2003 are all very solid if not great young Ports from Graham's as well.

If there is one common thread to the VPs from this shipper ... it is not the sweetness that folks typically comment on (normally .5% more RS than other houses, big deal) but the long term consistency of house style and more so ... excellence in the vast majority of top vintage years.

In one of the upcoming issues of the FTLOP Newsletter, you'll read my article on a vertical of Graham's in which Rupert Symington and I led a tasting for 70 people in March 2006. There was about a half case of each wine and they spanned from 2003 to 1945 with some Mags present as well.

I would still like to hear why John believes this Forum is in any way, anti-Graham's. IF he is referencing my comments from 1995-2005 which were disparaging about the 1977 Graham's, then that is very much picking knits, as one specific VP is certainly not disrespecting the house for its body of work. Maybe he has another reason though?

[Tom Archer]

While no-one has it in for Graham (I think..) it's true that we have not seen that many notes, and have spent some time taking opposing views on the '77.

It is arguably the most consistent of all the houses on the VP front, and the Crusted is a delight..

Tom

[Roy Hersh]

Over the long haul, along with Dow, Niepoort and Fonseca, I would have to agree that Graham's is a safe bet in just about any vintage I've ever tasted. As remarked above, "consistent quality" is Graham's greatest claim to fame ... including both the pre and post-Symington era (1970- ).

[Al B.]

I'll go back to John's original question - will the favourites from 2003 as defined in 2006 still be his favourites in 2028 (when the wines are 25 and John is a lively and enthusiastic 80!)

To me, I would suggest that the answer is an emphatic NO!

The wines will develop and change over time. The Taylor 1948 was probably a tough and tannic wine that may have been quite unpleasant to drink when it was 2-3 years old. Over the last 60 years, the wine has softened and matured and is now extremely enjoyable (or, at least, so I have read). How would that have compared to the Dow 1948 or the Graham 1948 in its infancy? I have no idea. However, I would be pretty confident that today's favourite wine would be extremely enjoyable in 25 years and will not suddenly turn to something undrinkable but I cannot guarantee that it will remain your favourite among its peers forever.

Against this dynamic, you also have to throw in the fact that if (as it appears might be the case) you like to drink your ports while they still have that vigorous fruity flush of infanthood, your 2003 favourite may not be as enjoyable for you to drink as - say - the 2018 Taylor.

So, in summary, if you like a 3 year old wine today I would say that you will continue to like it throughout its life but that your favourite among its peers may well change.

Alex

[Roy Hersh]

Well put Alex! Bravo.

I did not know that Dow declared '48 though?

[Al B.]

The Dow '48 was one of those wines that was never released or declared and is never seen either in private cellars in Oporto or at auction.

Alex

[John Owlett]

Thank you, Alex. An absolutely superb answer. Definite Hall of Fame material. Thoughtful, perceptive and witty.

A serious response to your analysis would be to repeat the 2003 side-by-side comparisons every few years, observing how my preferences change as the wines -- and probably my tastes -- mature.

A frivolous response would be to speculate that your prediction of a declared vintage in 2018 is based upon vintages' continuing to be declared every third year ... just as the shippers' accountants might wish. In which case we would have, in 2009, the first ever general declaration in a year ening in a 9.

Later,

Dr Owl,

----------------------------
John Owlett, Southampton, UK

[Al B.]

[Alex K.]

Surely that should be an emphatic 'not necessarily', as both Ports are high quality long-lasters and at 25 will still be quite youthful. It would be easy to prefer the Fonseca, especially for me.

Anyway, fess up - who's been dissing Graham's? Certainly wasn't me, it comes co-runner-up with Taylor's and Croft for me, after Fonseca.

[Ronald Wortel]

Must have been me then. :twisted:

Anybody wanna trade my Graham 1977 magnums for Fonsecas?

[Roy Hersh]

In the newsletter which will be in your hands next week, you'll find an article of mine about a deep vertical of Graham's going back to 1945, including the '48 and other gems. I think you'll be surprised by some of the scores (if you are enabled to read them :? ). I was on the panel leading this tasting with Rupert Symington in FLA last March. 75 tasters in the room. Very cool. My brother was a total dork and took a lousy photo or two from a distance. Nice guy.

[Andy Velebil]

Next time call me, I will be glad to get some god pic's....Although they may get a bit blury by the end of the night :twisted:

[Derek T.]

Must have been me then. :twisted:

Anybody wanna trade my Graham 1977 magnums for Fonsecas?

Ronald,

I will trade your case of Graham's 1977 Magnums for a case of Fonseca Bin 27 any day

Dedrek

[Jay Powers]

Must have been me then. :twisted:

Anybody wanna trade my Graham 1977 magnums for Fonsecas?

Ronald,

I will trade your case of Graham's 1977 Magnums for a case of Fonseca Bin 27 any day

Dedrek

Derek, I'll take you up on that, FOB your house to mine

Jay