Investment?

[Nicholas]

Do any of you here invest in your port seriously? If so, do you invest in future drinking, or for financial gain? List your favourites if you like.

I hear the investment value in port wine varies greatly, depending on its rarity and at the time of declared vintage. I recently bought several bottles, most for investment (I'm only 18 so I have a long life ahead of me!)

Just a start. As it follows, (Starting with youngest - well known brands only)

2003 Fonseca
2003 Taylor's Flatgate
2003 Smith Woodhouse
1997 Fonseca
1997 Taylor's
1994 Fonseca
1991 Dow's
1983 Dow's
1977 Dow's

Any good? I plan on looking into Graham, Croft, Niepoort and Quinta do Noval.

[Al B.]

Nicholas

Personally, I don't invest in port for anything other than future drinking. I've been lucky in some cases where I've bought young and before Parker gives ports 98+ points, but that is just pure luck and simply saves me some money when I decide that I want to buy some wine for current drinking.

I assume that some people invest in port to make money, but I don't think many people on this forum do that. The impression that I have - and it is only my opinion - is that most on this forum tend to buy to drink and not to sell at a later date.

However, from what I understand from the reading that I have done, I believe that port is not currently viewed as a strong candidate for financial investment. Port prices do not seem to increase significantly over time as the wines mature and better returns seem to come from other wines such as bordeaux and burgundy. In addition, while profits from investing in unfortified wine in the UK is not subject to capital gains tax, any gains you make from investing in port would be taxed.

I can't really advise you on investing in port to make money, all I can say is that the wines that you have listed are a great start to a port cellar and - if you are currently only 18 - you have a great chance to follow these wines as they age and mature.

Enjoy them - and if you make money at the same time then that is an added bonus.

Alex

[Andy Velebil]

Personally, I don't invest in port for anything other than future drinking.

Nicholas,

I agree with Alex. Port that I buy is so sometime down the road I can go to my cellar (ok, offsite ) and grab a bottle that I know has been perfectly cellared since release and enjoy it. I have no intentions of ever selling my ports. If I ever get to that point where I still have some left when I am old and feeble and unable to drink anymore, they will then be given away to those I know that will enjoy them. Just my $0.02

[Nicholas]

Thanks for the vivid responses. Very interesting nonetheless.

I can't really advise you on investing in port to make money, all I can say is that the wines that you have listed are a great start to a port cellar and - if you are currently only 18 - you have a great chance to follow these wines as they age and mature.

Enjoy them - and if you make money at the same time then that is an added bonus.

Spot on. That was my inital view before I bought these bottles. One of the positive things about following wine as they age and mature is that you can monitor how they are stored, temperature wise, the date of purchase and you can reflect back on your ''salad days'', the time when you purchased these bottles, as to be quite rewarding. That's if you make it (!)

I was merely curious to know whether anyone uses port wine, to be precise, as a bit of fun investment. Then again, if your port gained a bit of investment, would you sell it and let someone else benefit? Very doubtful you would.
I agree that these bottles are a good start to my collection at tender of 18, and will no doubt, improve as the time goes by, as I get older!.

[Guest]

I can see four things I might do with my Ports:

1) Drink them
2) Give them away to close friends as presents
3) Trading with some other Port drinker for hard-to-find stuff
4) Leaving them for my kids

I'm far more likely to consume virtually all of my Port under option "1".

With that being said, I do get a bit of enjoyment out of acquiring a Port at a great price, and watching the prices go up at auctions and on winesearcher as the years go buy. But that's more just personal satisfaction at getting a good deal on them to begin with.

Stewart

[Roy Hersh]

Invest in:

a. precious gemstones
b. artwork
c. antiques
d. furs
e. rare coins and stamps
f. first edition and signed books
g. furniture
h. automobiles
i. real estate
j. jewelry
k. all of the above

DRINK wine and cellar your Ports ... but don't look to profit on their sale.

[Tom Archer]

There was scope for investment - fifteen years ago...

All fine wine prices are looking over-inflated now - especially at first release - production volumes are rising as producers realise that it pays (at the moment) to invest in quality production methods.

There is also too much wine being bought by investors who have no intention of ever drinking any..

At some point there will be a correction - a crash is possible - and that could produce a 'window of opportunity' -

But for now I fully agree with Alex's and Roy's thoughts..

Tom

[Derek T.]

Nicholas,

I agree entirely with the views expressed above in relation to investment in port.

However, given that you are heading down the same road that all of us are here, and at such a tender age, I would add an additional item to Roy's list - invest in Private Medical Insurance - it will come in handy when your liver packs in

Derek

PS: Congratulations on your initial choices, you have some very nice ports in your collection already. With the other prospects you mention it is hard to go wrong. However, given that your experience of drinking (rather than investing/cellaring) port must be limited at 18, I would advise you to spend a few years experimenting with different styles of port at lower prices than those you have chosen to invest in. Mature Single Quinta Vintage Ports normally come in at around £20 rahter than the £30, £40 or £50 for those listed in your original note, many of which are not yet ready to give of their best.

[Moses Botbol]

You're going to lose money, at least. Enjoying has to be your first objective. For sure, the 95 Taylor you paid $40 now for will be worth a lot more than $40, 20-30 years from now.

I do not plan to sell my port, but God for forbid I need to, I should be able to gain some on my investment. If you want to invest in wine for money; go for the large format vintage Champagne; that stuff goes up in value quick- especially the Dom... You are also less likely to keep drinking them down like port...

[Nicholas]

Thanks for the replies.

Derek, I've tried a number of port bottles ranging from £5 onwards. Sainsbury's in my opinion, has the best deals on port right now. From Warre's to Dow's, you can pick up a bottle of Otima 10 year old tawny (which I also have) for £9.99! Last summer, they did a special offer on Taylor's 10yr old tawny for £14.99, with discount. Most top merchants want around £30.

In response to Moses Botbol, we have a 1990 Cuvee Dom Perignon in our cellar (purchased 14 years ago). Should we sell it now or hold onto it? We're not really champagne enthusiasts.

[Roy Hersh]

The 1990 DP is a very special bottle and I think just as great as the highly touted '96. That said, you could enjoy that fabulous bottle on your 30th birthday, or possbily 40th as between now and then ... your tastes in wine will change dramatically no matter what you think now. It will be an amazing bottle in another decade+

Sure you can sell if for triple what you paid. However owning a bottle since you were a youngster of that type, makes for a great story and remarkably good drinking when the time comes. Live for those types of moments. Money is like water, you need it to survive ... but how often does it make you smile?

[Moses Botbol]

In response to Moses Botbol, we have a 1990 Cuvee Dom Perignon in our cellar (purchased 14 years ago). Should we sell it now or hold onto it? We're not really champagne enthusiasts.

My reply is similar to Roy's. You should never sell anything unless:

A. That was your intent (to resell) when you originally bought it.
B. Financial situation forces it.

I hope that it it's not B, and if it was A, throw it out there see if you get a bite for what you were hoping to get.

If you are not a DP drinker, selling it could well be an option as you could pick up a few bottles or port for what that goes for. Realistically, the 1990 DP is around $200 US.

[Nicholas]

Yes I very much agree. I'm going to hold onto it for now, and worry about it in the near future. Better to preserve a future 'love and joy'.

Back to business. Currently enjoying Warre's Otima's 10 year old tawny - although a bit early for tawny, but nonetheless I look forward to the
daffodils blossoming, the time of spring.

[Moses Botbol]

Back to business. Currently enjoying Warre's Otima's 10 year old tawny - although a bit early for tawny, but nonetheless I look forward to the
daffodils blossoming, the time of spring.

Curious as to why you think it's a bit early for a 10 year? Do you mean it's too early in the year to drink tawny's or the 10 year is too young to enjoy?

[Nicholas]

Back to business. Currently enjoying Warre's Otima's 10 year old tawny - although a bit early for tawny, but nonetheless I look forward to the
daffodils blossoming, the time of spring.

Curious as to why you think it's a bit early for a 10 year? Do you mean it's too early in the year to drink tawny's or the 10 year is too young to enjoy?

That's my view. Tawny is more of a summer drink to me, a light weight to enjoy outside at late evening. I tend to drink LBV and vintage during the winter months.

[Derek T.]

That's my view. Tawny is more of a summer drink to me, a light weight to enjoy outside at late evening. I tend to drink LBV and vintage during the winter months.

Hmmm? - this suggest a pattern of matching specific styles of port to the passing seasons established over many years - not many 18 year olds have managed to do that yet

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Nicholas,

DOn't let seasons effect what types of Port you drink....here in Los Angeles we DON'T have seasons...it just gets a little hotter and colder from time to time, and I drink it all....